studying Logic

[mimififi]

Hi there,
I am still planning curriculum material.

i was wondering if anyone had studied, or had their child study Logic.

If you have, can you recommend any good texts or courses in logic. My daughter hasn't studied Logic formally and neither have I, so we need a course/book that takes you from the basics.

Also, anyone had any experience of the same re the rhetoric stage?

thank you muchly,
mimififi

[maxi29]

I did philosophy at university and spent three years on logic. It's not an easy subject and generally requires a good knowledge of mathematics. Our text book at uni was Lemmon's Beginning Logic, but I didn't find it that clear. I discovered Wilfred Hodge's Logic - which was much clearer (but I think it's out of print), Hilary Putnam's Logic was also clear and concise and very helpful.

Be warned: these are all undergraduate level books. It's certainly possible to grasp the concepts earlier than that but it's not for the fainthearted. Put it this way, out of the 40 people on my uni course, there were just two of us who took the logic module in the final year.

[mimififi]

Do you know of any 'logic for dummies' type books or logic for children?

Thank you for your response, I am very grateful for your help.
mimififi

[Dingoeater]

Formal logic is very dry and I dropped it as soon as I could as a philosophy undergraduate. However, I bought "The Languages of Logic" by S. Guttenplan for a friend last year (a friend, I hasten to add, who had no academic training) and she found it accesible, interesting and useful.

[EssJay1]

I know you home educate and guess your child is around 10 - 11, so can I ask why you want to teach her logic as a separate subject?

[mimififi]

Oh, Essjay1, are you stalking me??? just kidding, hehe.

Well, my children use a particular 'off the shelf curriculum' which is fine and we are really only using it as a means to and ends because you can study for an internation certificate through it which is equivalent our public exams and recognised by Unis here in the UK, but I find it a bit narrow and frankly, a bit dry.

So, I also use (and exclusively use) a curriculum which simply guides your teaching which is outlined by Susan Bauer's "The Well Trained Mind" and Logic is introduced at around age 9, but I'm doing it a bit late due to a variety of reasons beyond my control. The texts that it recommends are very difficult to find, and I think only available in the US. I've had problems ordering them, and I wondered if someone else might recommend some other topics.

Bauer argues that the training in Logic provides children with the ability to formulate arguments and be more analytical and critical. It is a mental discipline as any other is I suppose and as my daughter is already learning Latin and it is proving to be the benefit bauer promises it to be with reference to English Grammar and spelling and understanding etc, I thought I would investigate her claims re the study of Logic. She follows on from Logic into Rhetoric also, but I think we need to start with Logic.

[mimififi]

Also, it is my daughter's number 1 desire, upon which she is very focussed, to study at Oxford when she is 18. I want to help her (though, not push her, it's totally her idea, I know first hand how pressurised it is once you're there, and you've gotta be into that kinda thing to even want to go there and not just because you like cycling and scarf wearing) the best I can. She is going to have to stand out more so than most children because she is going to have to prove that she spent her teen age years studying and not wasting as she is coming through unconventional avenues. As we do not yet have the SAT college admission scheme like they have in the US at the moment, you have to prove that you have something. If Uni's had their own entrance exams, I would perhaps be a little more relaxed. I know Oxford use their own entrance exams, but you've still got to have a prediction of AAA, or AAB to get to sit it (or you used to.) So that's the reason really, forward planning and a desire to educate ourselves to the full. That's it really.

I hope you don't think me one of those pushy mums that has her child working to the grind stone all day; I'm really not, I have to tell her to stop working and come and watch the movie. Have you seen the Gilmore girls? If you have, think Lorelai and Rory!!!!!!!!

[maxi29]

There is a Logic for Dummies, due out in July.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/04717 99416/qid=1146981569/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_ xgl/203-7254625-8447126

I applaud your desire to teach your child logic, it's a great discipline for improving one's reasoning ability but as Dingoeater says, even philosophy students found it dry. I loved it - but then, maths was my favourite subject at school. I reckon that if your child loves maths, she might get on with logic, if not, she's going to struggle.

[Dingoeater]

I took a great course on Schopenhauer instead, but I'm not sure that's much help.

[EssJay1]

Hi mimififi - no, not stalking you, just curious about why you're interested in teaching logic. Having given your reasons for introducing logic as being a way of introducing analytical thinking and reasoning, could I suggest you start by investigating philosophy for children - p4c, which you can google.

P4c and its companion subject, community of enquiry, are both excellent for developing thinking in children. Able children find it particularly difficult, as there are often no right answers to the items discussed. As the leader, you need a clear idea of where you expect a discussion to go, but need to be prepared to let it go where your daughter leads.

If you need any further help, please let me know and I'll gladly share my limited knowledge!

[mimififi]

Essjay: You are little star (as is everyone else who is helping me!)

I shall definately check out the text you suggest and we'll see if we can't make a thinker out of at least one of my children yet, ha ha.

Thank you so much, I do really appreciat your help.

p.s I was only joking about the stalking.

[EssJay1]

You're welcome.