Reporting Dog Breeder..

[wiggal]

Hey all,

Just after some advice really!
Collected a puppy on Sunday from a house, the man showed me the certificates to show her parents are hip scored and eyes tested for cataracts.
He said the litter was accidental and would never normally cross 2 breeds.
(my pup is a Cavalier King Charles x Cocker Spaniel).

I cae to work yesterday, and spoke to my supervisor, who has an 18 month CKCS x cocker spaniel, and turns out she got him from the same house, and both our pups have the same mum.

So he has obviously lied to me regarding it being a one off accident!
After discussing it, we both feel we should report this, as something is not right!
The house did not look lived in at all, was bare, the man was not interested in either of us (me or my supervisor).
Cont..,

[wiggal]

Cont...
He asked no questions, When I phoned and spoke to him about the puppies, he said that I had caught him on an off chance and he doesnt normally deal with the dogs, but his wife does, yet yesterday my supervisor called him as we were starting to think things were abit strange, and spoke to the wife who said her husband deals with the puppies and she doesnt know what he has left!

Cleo as we have named her seems fine in herself, unlike my supervisors dog who was flea ridden when she picked him up, and we are going to get her vet checked.

We want to report them so it can be looked into.
Is there some kind of license people need to have to breed and sell x breed dogs that they are trying to avoid?
We paid �250 for Cleo, (oblivious at the time of any of the above!) and I wouldnt change her for the world already!
My partner and I are also worried, he showed us certificates, but if he has lied about all else, who is to say these mean anything?

Just looking really to see if you think we should report it, who to and if any one has any information on why they may be doing this?

Many Thanks

[josaphine32]

I had a simmular experience to you with a breeder, i saw all the papers hip score certificates, i must say that the puppy i got looked well cared for I paid �400.00, after 4 days of having her she was rushed to the vets with a high temperature, pup was diagnosed craniomandibular osteopathy which is hereditary i contacted the breeder as she should not have bred from the parents both parents have to have the disease in order for the puppys to get it, she did not want to know and would not pay anything towards costs in vets fees, then 4 months after that my poor pup was limping took her back to the vets...another disease leg perthese disease, so far lilly has cost me �2,000 this is a good thread i wnat to report someone as well...

[pingping]

You could contact the UK breeders association specific to your dog's breed (in this instance you might want to contact both CKCS and CS). These associations usually keep details of all breeders so should be able to let you know if these people are registered.

http://www.********************.co.uk/
http://www.cavaliers.co.uk/

[pingping]

oh dear, i think that's because the word cocker appears in the link!

it is just w w w . the cocker spaniel club . com (obvioulsy without the spaces)

[kita1]

Did you see the parents (or at least the mum) of your dog? Or ANY adult dogs? Did you check with the Kennel Club that the 'papers' he showed you were real and the dogs actually existed and were registered in his name?

I could show you any number of pedigree certificates for dogs that I do not own!!

Sounds like you could have bought from a 'dealer' or puppy farmer.

If the dogs were registered by the KC (which being cross breed they were not) you could have reported him to the KC.

You could try Environmental Health (I think you need a licence to breed dogs) or your local dog warden, but to be honest I don't think that you will get anywhere.

Did you pay cash? Might be worth getting in touch with the tax people as he is probably not declaring it as income (if the person is on benefit then he should also tell the DSS).

Sadly there is very little anyone can do about puppy farmers or people that sell puppies in this way (there are alot more who keep the pups in far worse conditions than you describe).

Is your pup insured? (If not it may be a good idea to insure her, at least for the first year or so when any hereditary condition will probably show up).

Hope your pup remains well.

[lankeela]

Sadly as long as people like you keep buying the puppies they will keep breeding them.

Why buy the puppy if things did not look right? I would not let anyone take a puppy of mine until they had visited at least twice, once to see the puppies and for me to see them, and then again to choose their puppy and make sure they were still serious about wanting one. People like this are only interested in the cash and would sell to anyone who arrived with the money.

Environmental Health are the people to contact, but unless they breed more than four litters a year or it can be proved that they are commercial breeders then they do not need a breeder's licence. If there is a problem with a puppy then Trading Standards are the department to contact, as the 'goods' bought are not suitable for the purpose they were bought for (i.e. to live a normal life as a healthy pet).
For not much more than �250 you could have bought a purebred dog from a reputable breeder. I can't believe people are willing to pay so much for mongrels, which is what they really are.

[wiggal]

I understand completely what you are saying lankeela, but I also see the side of if we didnt buy her, some one else migt off and she could of ended up anywhere, which i guess is an odd way of looking looking at it.

things only really seemed to click as odd when I spoke to my boss yesterday, and we realised both our pups were from the same place, which meant that it only occured to me that he had lied whilst we were talking.
And yes, I do know what you were saying about visiting twice atleast, but we saw her and adored her, and there were other people phoning up whilst we were there about them so she would of gone.
The other people would of just been the same, turned up and been able to take her, atleast I know that coming with us, that she is ok.

Like I said, it was only speaking to my boss yesterday that made us both realise things werent right with what they had said and so on.

We have her booked in for a puppy check this evening, and I wll be phoning to get her insured in the next few days.
The papers they showed us had the mums description (who we saw briefly), same with the eye check and hip papers, but its only since the above has come to light that we have thought maybe they are not right as we had no reason to question them before.

http://duckyshack.co.uk/u/1002/f79795127.jpg

Hope that works, she really is gorgeous, and worth every penny of the �250 we spent, Mongrel or not
We didnt go out looking for a mongrel or pedigree specifically, just a dog that we both feel in love with when we met her, and we did!

[wiggal]

So yea, we may of gone about it the wrong way, spent to much on her and not realised it was iffy until too late, but I wouldnt change her for the world, and I know my boss definitely would never change her boy (who she has had no problems with so far), but now we have realised, we wanted to be able to do something about it, but it appears that may not be possible unfortunately.

Thank you for your replies everyone :)

[lankeela]

The problem is, people like this play on the 'I couldn't bear to leave the pup there' syndrome. How did you hear about the pups for sale? It could be important evidence if you have a copy of an advert. Check with the Kennel Club about the parents papers, even if they are not purebred puppies if they are lying about the parents pedigrees/health certificates then there is a case against them.

[wiggal]

It was an advert up in pets at home, the advert was still up this evening when we went in for puppy pads.

And just back from the puppy check, everything is fine with her so far, and he has just given us some worming powder as the the bloke said she was wormed up to date but cant be too sure.
I'm pretty gutted though as she seems to be getting attached to my partner as he is home during the day! But I guess that whats to be expected!

[garner]

Oh wiggal she is beautiful no wonder you fell in love with her what a beauty.Hope all goes well for her health wise.I know she will be loved to bits,how are the others taking to her? I bet the cats are giving her some looks lol. love g.

[wiggal]

Hey Garner, thank you, she is soo lovely! She is cuddled up in her bed at the mo, so around 9 I am going to take her up to put her in her pen so she can sleep, I can give the cats some well deserved full attention and Ashke can come in!
She has been chasing the cats, as soon as we got her home on Sunday, she was charging at them and chasing them round the front room!
Cefa is not happy and in hiding at the mo (which is why Cleo will go to bed soon and I will cuddle Cefa!)

She hasnt yet met Ashke, as he is extremely excitable at the best of times, so we have given her a couple of days to settle in and get used to the cats, but she has been sitting nose to nose with Ashke through the back door!
I will give her a good night cuddle from you Garner :)
xx

[kita1]

Please don't wait too long to insure her - most insurances make you wait a few days before they come into effect and as changing homes is the most stressful time for any pup she is most vunerable now. That is why most responsible breeders supply six weeks insurance with their pups when they sell them.

Perhaps I am cynical but presumably you arranged the time you were going to visit to buy her? The phone calls from 'other purchasers' could well have been the blokes wife or friends ringing to 'buy' one of the pups (to make you hurry up and buy thinking that if you hesitated she would be gone). That would have put me right off.

The other warning bell for me would be the fact that you did not seem to see the father of the pups - surely if the mating was 'accidental' then the father should be living in the house with the mother?

However, I wish you well with the pup and hope you have many happy years together - and remember if you go to buy any animal in the future DON'T go with your heart open, buy with your head!

[LoftyLottie]

Wiggal, just to say that your Pup is beautiful as I could not have walked away from her. These people are crooks and I despise them.

However, I speak as someone who would never consider buying a dog as I have only ever had rescue dogs and have never had a clue as to who the parents were!

[lankeela]

Sadly LoftyLottie it is breeders like this who probably produce many of the dogs that end up in rescue, as they are not fussy who they sell them to and some people either cannot cope or only buy them on a whim. Reputable breeders should always be willing to take back any dogs they have bred for whatever reason and they are much more careful who they let them go to. No doubt the mother of this puppy will be bred from again at her next season, and more unsuspecting buyers will be tempted to take home one of these 'accidental' puppies.

[wiggal]

Hi Kita, thanks again for your repliess, and Lankeela, and yes, in future I will let my head rule my heart!
We had planned a time, but then arrived earlier and phoned when we were a couple of minutes away!

Hi Lofty,
I would of liked to of rescued a dog, but I wouldnt feel too comfortable bringing a dog into the house with 7 cats as you can never garauntee when they say ok with cats, and also that may mean 1 or 2.
I wouldnt want to have to rehome a dog, then for some reason have to take it back again because it had gone for one of the cats or something!
But in years to come, that is definitely one option I will look into :)

[LoftyLottie]

What also really annoys me Lankeela is, having been ivolved in dog rescue, some so called reputable breeders pass on the 'less than perfect' puppies to animal rescue organisations and in one case just deposited a puppy with a bent tail in local woodland.

[LoftyLottie]

I have rescued cats as well wiggal. Perhaps I have been lucky but in general they all muck in together and I have never had any problems. Rules of the house! ;o)

[wiggal]

Lankeela, that is exactly what I was trying to find out if we could stop,
We wanted to know if there was any way we could get it looked into or anything so that it could be stopped if possible and she wouldnt be bred from as it obviously was not accidental.

Oh, and Kita, sorry just remembered to answer to te last bit, we saw the mum but he said to us that the dad was a dog that belonged to a member of his family who he was looking after. Which of course now thinking about it more is likely to be not true at all!

[leelapops]

wiggal, I don't have anything to add as far as your question goes. However, your pup is adorable, and I really hope she is healthy and lives a long and happy life with you (I know how much you must love her already!)

Give her a cuddle from me and a kiss from Jack.

I HATE that people can still breed dogs in this way: I can only support what others have said on the matter, and commend you for wanting to raise the issue with someone else. If the ad is up, could you have a strong-willed friend visit under the guise of wanting a pup, but just ask questions and suss out the deal? Even secretly record?

x