Society & Culture3 mins ago
How can they tell the difference?
23 Answers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/06/af ghanistan-bomb-tractor-wedding-taliban
I think we can safely say that this tragic event and the separate killing of 5 Afghan policemen (also by a road side bomb), was the work of the Taliban.
But having said that, local police said an air strike killed five farmers loading cucumbers late at night, into a taxi in southern Afghanistan, but a US spokeswoman said the five were militants placing explosives in a van.
The US last month imposed rules attempting to limit civilian casualties in response to growing resentment at the deaths of ordinary Afghans.
The question must be asked, how do they limit civilian casualties when the civilians do not look any different to the Taliban?
I think we can safely say that this tragic event and the separate killing of 5 Afghan policemen (also by a road side bomb), was the work of the Taliban.
But having said that, local police said an air strike killed five farmers loading cucumbers late at night, into a taxi in southern Afghanistan, but a US spokeswoman said the five were militants placing explosives in a van.
The US last month imposed rules attempting to limit civilian casualties in response to growing resentment at the deaths of ordinary Afghans.
The question must be asked, how do they limit civilian casualties when the civilians do not look any different to the Taliban?
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Civilian deaths are up 24% this year.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/07/31/afgha n-civilian-deaths.html
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/07/31/afgha n-civilian-deaths.html
Civilian deaths are up 24% this year.
Interesting reading Gromit, but your point is?
Please try and answer my question in the last paragraph of my post.
A passage from your link,
Foreign strikes have become more deadly, too, partly because insurgent groups are taking cover in residential areas or luring U.S.-led forces into unintentionally killing civilians, the UN said.
What I fail to understand from this Afghanistan conflict, is the fact that we never hear of mass numbers of civilian refugees crossing over into bordering countries to escape the dangers of the war.
Interesting reading Gromit, but your point is?
Please try and answer my question in the last paragraph of my post.
A passage from your link,
Foreign strikes have become more deadly, too, partly because insurgent groups are taking cover in residential areas or luring U.S.-led forces into unintentionally killing civilians, the UN said.
What I fail to understand from this Afghanistan conflict, is the fact that we never hear of mass numbers of civilian refugees crossing over into bordering countries to escape the dangers of the war.
AOG
The Afghans have in effect been invaded twice.
The Taliban gained power largely due to the the influx of foreign fighters, the mujahadeen who the Americans encouraged. The ordinary indigenous Afghans were powerless to stop that invasion. When the 'holy fighters' turned against us, we in turn invaded that country.
So, there are two groups of largely foreigners fighting each other, and the local population caught inbetween.
You never hear of mass refugees, because Afghanistan is a sparcely populated country. Kabul is densely populated, but is fully under control.
But many people have fled the war. The majority of those immigrants across the Channel are Afghans.
If the subject wasn't so deadly serious, your vision of explosive cucumbers is hilarious.
The Afghans have in effect been invaded twice.
The Taliban gained power largely due to the the influx of foreign fighters, the mujahadeen who the Americans encouraged. The ordinary indigenous Afghans were powerless to stop that invasion. When the 'holy fighters' turned against us, we in turn invaded that country.
So, there are two groups of largely foreigners fighting each other, and the local population caught inbetween.
You never hear of mass refugees, because Afghanistan is a sparcely populated country. Kabul is densely populated, but is fully under control.
But many people have fled the war. The majority of those immigrants across the Channel are Afghans.
If the subject wasn't so deadly serious, your vision of explosive cucumbers is hilarious.
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And to finally answer your question,
Intelligence needs to be improved, and the proof for bringing in airstrikes must be greater. If they cannot tell the difference between a wedding party and an army, then they should not bomb. Fortunately, these villages are very remote and there are no TV crews to record the mistakes. The US rarely admit there mistakes, so we are left with the word of our allie against some towel headed foreigners whose lives are cheap.
Intelligence needs to be improved, and the proof for bringing in airstrikes must be greater. If they cannot tell the difference between a wedding party and an army, then they should not bomb. Fortunately, these villages are very remote and there are no TV crews to record the mistakes. The US rarely admit there mistakes, so we are left with the word of our allie against some towel headed foreigners whose lives are cheap.
If the subject wasn't so deadly serious, your vision of explosive cucumbers is hilarious.
If you wasn't so keen to quickly take everything I say out of context, you would have noticed that I was merely commenting to Zacsmaster associating cucumbers to bombs, who was in fact making ridicule of the US spokeswoman who denied they were not cucumbers but in fact bombs.
By the very fact that you did not comment on my vision of explosive rocks, I take it that can't be so hilarious then?
Oh you are so naive Gromit, it's almost unbelievable, it is of little wonder that you are not taken advantage of, by all and sundry.
If you wasn't so keen to quickly take everything I say out of context, you would have noticed that I was merely commenting to Zacsmaster associating cucumbers to bombs, who was in fact making ridicule of the US spokeswoman who denied they were not cucumbers but in fact bombs.
By the very fact that you did not comment on my vision of explosive rocks, I take it that can't be so hilarious then?
Oh you are so naive Gromit, it's almost unbelievable, it is of little wonder that you are not taken advantage of, by all and sundry.
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PS.
In any war, there will be civilian casualties, but what the Allies need to do is to show a 'clear blue sea' between our objectives and those of the Taliban.
If you were an Afghan and your mum, dad and sister were killed by Allies, it wouldn't really matter to you whether it was a complete accident. Your attitude to the West would be coloured by the incident, making it more difficult for us to achieve our objectives there.
Every civilian casualty plays right into the hands of the enemy.
In any war, there will be civilian casualties, but what the Allies need to do is to show a 'clear blue sea' between our objectives and those of the Taliban.
If you were an Afghan and your mum, dad and sister were killed by Allies, it wouldn't really matter to you whether it was a complete accident. Your attitude to the West would be coloured by the incident, making it more difficult for us to achieve our objectives there.
Every civilian casualty plays right into the hands of the enemy.
I think thats a great question AOG and one that should have probably been asked before we goddarnit invaded the country!
Now that we are there I really do want our army to win but all I see is an enemy a lot more clever than us at using the terrain and the country, and a war that I don't think we can truly win.
I mean will we ever win over the population? There cultures are so different to ours can there ever be a point where they trust us? especially after all the direct or indirect (I think the locals would still blame the west for them) killings of innocent people?
Now that we are there I really do want our army to win but all I see is an enemy a lot more clever than us at using the terrain and the country, and a war that I don't think we can truly win.
I mean will we ever win over the population? There cultures are so different to ours can there ever be a point where they trust us? especially after all the direct or indirect (I think the locals would still blame the west for them) killings of innocent people?
I've said this before, in any war against Terrorists, to stand any chance of winning, you have to have the civilian population actively onside.
Th, we blatently do not have, for various reasons, and because of this, we, the Allies, regardless of any successes we've had, do not stand a chance of winning.
If anyone has an idea of how to win this stupid war, they should forward it to No10.
Th, we blatently do not have, for various reasons, and because of this, we, the Allies, regardless of any successes we've had, do not stand a chance of winning.
If anyone has an idea of how to win this stupid war, they should forward it to No10.
sp1814
Better intelligence. Establish where training camp are. Engage local political and religious leaders.
That's how.
Easier said than done SP
Establish where training camps are...............
We know where they are, Pakistan, but we can't just go into Pakistan and destroy them, that is a job for the Pakistan Government, a job that they seem a little lax in carrying out.
Engage local political and religious leaders..................
Both of these groups have their own agenda, so it brings us back to my original question, telling the difference between innocent civilians and the Taliban.
Better intelligence. Establish where training camp are. Engage local political and religious leaders.
That's how.
Easier said than done SP
Establish where training camps are...............
We know where they are, Pakistan, but we can't just go into Pakistan and destroy them, that is a job for the Pakistan Government, a job that they seem a little lax in carrying out.
Engage local political and religious leaders..................
Both of these groups have their own agenda, so it brings us back to my original question, telling the difference between innocent civilians and the Taliban.
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