Trying to find out about my Aunt ..

[smurfchops]

My aunt Marjorie Francis. I don't know her maiden name. I believe she was born in the North of England, possibly Leeds or Nottingham. She married Frank Francis and lived in Maidenhead, Berkshire. He was an immigrant possibly in the 1920s and I think he changed his name from Franz Zacharias to Frank Francis in 1935. Can't find anything about her family at all. Help please ! Marjorie died in Maidenhead 7.11.1975 I believe.

[dothawkes31]

Did Marjorie and Frank have any children ? you would get her maiden name off their entry in the GRO Index if you knew their names and where they may have been born.

[Mr Veritas]

According to the Free BMD,we have the following~
Francis Herbert Zacharias,born December (quarter) 1885 in West Derby
Francis Herbert Zacharias married Gladys M(Marjorie?) Eastwood in June 1916(quarter) in West Derby
They appear to have had a son in 1917(in W Derby) in the June Quarter,named Francis J Zacharias.
I cannot find any births after that,either because the Free BMD does not go any further, or because they didn't have any more.
So if he changed his name in 1935,then he would have been 50.
Of course if it was a Jewish name,he might have felt(with the war coming) that a an anglo saxon name might be better?
I hope the child didn't change his name,or he would have ended up being Francis Francis!

[Mr Veritas]

PS:~
Looking at the 1911 Census I see that West Derby is in Lancashire,and not Derbyshire as might seem obvious!

[Mr Veritas]

Further delving shows that West Derby used to be in Lancashiremit is now part of Liverpool(Merseyside).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Derby

[Mr Veritas]

Re~reading your question,I have also found the following:~

Frank Francis married a Marjorie Greenfield in Staines in 1939
Is this too late?
Of course Staines isn't Maidenhead,but it's only 19 miles.
I don't know if this is more helpful than the above,but it's all grist to the mill.

If I find any more I will post it.

[smurfchops]

Mr Veritas, sorry didnt reply earlier, have been away. It was possible that Marjorie's name was Greenfield, the year 1939 is very possible. She was originally from the North, I remember her accent. and Yes, they were Jewish but had no children. Sorry to be so vague. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Can we find out, if her name was Greenfield, what her mother's maiden name was? I am hoping it was something like Edelstein, possibly Pauline, if she was my mother's cousin.

[smurfchops]

Mr Veritas, I found this : look at 6 (a). That was him.

http://www.rijo.homepage.t-online.de/pdf/EN_NU_JU_neuburger2.pdf

[Mr Veritas]

Hello there,
and thanks for the information!
I am off to do a bit of investigating,and will report back in due course.
You don't have(the possbly) Pauline Edelstein's Husbands christian name by any chance?

[smurfchops]

Hi, I am guessing Marjorie's mother or father was an Eidelstein as Marjorie was my mother's cousin (my mother was an Eidlestein before marrying) and I have a photo of my mother's grandparents from Russia. Marjorie is the spitting image of my mother's grandmother ! (Hope you can work that out ...) :)

[smurfchops]

Hi again Mr Veritas, it is possible that Marjorie's mother was Passa (also known as Pauline) or Hilda or her father could have been Sam or Louis Eidlestein. There is also a sibling called Yeedle (!) I don't know whether this is male or female ! I have done a lot of research in the family and found out loads of interesting facts, but I have come to a blank with Marjorie Francis.

[Mr Veritas]

Still searching!

[smurfchops]

Thanks !

[Mr Veritas]

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Births Sep 1895 (>99%)
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Greenfield Marjorie Helen Barnet 3a 286

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Births Jun 1899 (>99%)
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GREENFIELD Marjorie Primrose Tendring 4a 695

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Births Dec 1905 (>99%)
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Greenfield Marjorie Elmira Barnet 3a 404

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Births Dec 1906 (>99%)
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Greenfield Marjorie Evelyn Chertsey 2a 61

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Births Mar 1907 (>99%)
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Greenfield Marjorie Elizabeth Wandsworth 1d 600

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Births Sep 1908 (>99%)
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GREENFIELD Marjorie Edmonton 3a 535

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Births Mar 1910 (>99%)
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GREENFIELD Marjorie Croydon 2a 307

-------------------

[Mr Veritas]

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Births Jun 1911 (>99%)
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Greenfield Marjorie E Edmonton 3a 586
Greenfield Marjorie M Croydon 2a 334

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page

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Births Jun 1912 (>99%)
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Greenfield Marjorie E Fisher Lincoln 7a 967

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Births Jun 1916 (>99%)
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Greenfield Marjorie E Grayland Kingston 2a 900

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Births Dec 1918 (98%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greenfield Marjorie Price Lambeth 1d 354

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Births Jun 1920 (>99%)
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Greenfield Marjorie A Hargreaves Cannock 6b 1116

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Births Jun 1925 (97%)
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Greenfield Marjorie E Bell Chelsea 1a 554

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Births Jun 1926 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greenfield Marjorie

[Mr Veritas]

The above details are from the Free BMD,and list ALL the births of Majrie Greenfields.
As you will see,after 1912 the Mother's maiden name is included,which is the 1st name after the initial Marjorie.
I cannot find any with either Eidelsstein or even Edelstein.

[Mr Veritas]

This is Frank & Marjories Wedding entry (we assume?)
Marriages Jun 1939 (72%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greenfield Marjorie E Francis Staines 3a 79

My wife has just joined Genes Re~United,so we are going to search there too.A friend also has access to Ancestry.com and has offered to have a look on that site,which may prove useful.
I am off to interogate(LOL) the Eidelstein's to see if any of them can be of help.
Of course being (presumably) Jewish,they may have been born abroad.
More news follows!

[Mr Veritas]

Further suggestions/advice.
On the listing (above) for Frank & Marjories marriage you will see the register entry number (3a 79) for the April May June quarter of 1939.
If you apply to the General Register Office for their Marriage Certificate (cost £7.00) you will be able to see her Father's name and her age,which would then enable you to decide WHICH Marjorie Greenfield is the one you can send for the Birth Certificate of (as there are quite a few listed above.)
IF you have even a rough idea of her date of birth you may be able to find her from just the list of births (above).
If this is not clear let me know and I will try and explain a bit more simply as these kind of things can be comolicated I realise.
To summarise:~
If you don't have an approx date of birth for Marjorie,you will have to get her wedding cert to find it out,and then work backwards.
If you do have an approx date of birth for Marjorie you can send for one or other of the birth certs for the Marjorie Greenfields that seem to be the right dates.
I hope this is clear?

[Mr Veritas]

PS:~(what MORE?) LOL
When you receive the Birth Cert this WILL have Marjorie's Mother's maiden name on it.
Sadly the Wedding Cert only has the Father's name,which I don't think is the avenue you are wanting to trace,is it?

[Mr Veritas]

The marriage entry should read:~

Greenfield Marjorie Francis Frank
District Staines
Volume 3a
Page 79

This may help also:~
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

[smurfchops]

Thank you so much Mr Veritas, it is so much for me to take in !! I will go through it bit by bit and see what I can find and send off for. Thanks again !