Stop And Search?

[Colmc54]

Like so many issues facing us here in the UK the balanced and rational is hard to establish (for me anyway).

As I understand it collators who study criminal activity advise the police on the profiles of the people most likely to be involved in criminal activity and terrorism. This in turn leads to the finite resources of the police being directed towards certain sections of our society.

In principle this would seem a reasonable attempt to help the police to maximise the prevention of shootings, stabbings, drug dealing, and other serious crimes before members of the public become victims.

In practice however, if we are to assume it's critics in civil society are to be believed, something has gone wrong and there's a risk that public trust in, and respect for the police is being jeopardised.

On the other hand, in polls, the people of London appear to be in favour of the continuation of Stop and Search, presumably because they believe crime will rise if it is stopped.

What is the balanced view, or is this issue beyond rational consideration?

[cassa333]

Statisitics damed statistics :)

I am broadly in favour of stop and search. Not particularly because of a fear of crime because I live in a low crime area and that tends to be petty and low level.

If for instance a robery has just taken place and the suspects are tall, blond haired youths in red jackets then the police would be justified in stopping all tall, blond haired youths (in the area). The red jacket could have been changed so that isn't always the prerequsisit.

If the statistics said (a large) proportion of aged asian women were committing smash and grad crimes then I would expect them to stop and search more of them than aged white women or if the statistics said bald middle aged white men were shoplifing they would be stopped more often. Or if the stats said by far the bigest drivers of bentleys were old white men and they saw a young black youth driving one they would also perhaps be justified stopping them.

I don't care who is stopped and searched as long as the statistics stack up to justify it.

The thing I wonder though is how many crimes have been either foiled or criminals nabbed by stop & search? How many terrorists have been found simply because of it? Can you imagine a policeman cacking his pants stopping say a muslim for some reason totaly unconnected and finding a home made bomb in his backpack.

[Colmc54]

Actually I think some credible statistics would be helpful. 'Credible'- There's the rub.

[Colmc54]

PS- I see there's already a good few questions on this topic. I promise do a search before I ask a question in future!

[Peter Pedant]

Methyl - your good stop and search, would only be good on outcome - the outcome is not the stop and search but finding something ( like drugs)

I have been tagged twice - its a real pain the behind,
dynamic data sets are difficult and expensive to maintain as accurate in real time. The DVLA computer bank may have had up to 20% entries as wrong, which mine was. So I used to ask questions like: do I look as tho I dont have enough money to tax a Rolls Royce ? and their little piggy eyes would go back into their sockets.
One even said Can I keep your tax disc ? and I said no of course you cant....[ in case it was a good forgery, not in case it was real.....]

[LazyGun]

@Colm You mention a poll of the people of London being in favour of a continuation of stop and search - do you have a link to that?

No one can have an argument with targeted or intelligence -led stop and search initiatives - but that is not what the statistics and studies show us. It is the s.60 searches that are the most contentious - those that are not specificallty targeted by intelligence but are,rather, a general power to stop and searc anyone a police officer feels like- and a detailed analysis of the figures shows that, whilst the use of s60 has declined markedly over the last few years, blacks in particular are disproportionately the target - Something like 23 times more likely to be the target than either a white or asian counterparts.

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/uploaded_files/ehrc_-_briefing_paper_no.5_-_s60_stop_and_search.pdf

It is S&S under s60 powers that need moderation, especially when it comes to the MPS.

[Colmc54]

The problem is that people don't live statistically in a national statistical environment, they live in local communities. Time and time again, when the people of this country ask for the truth we are given national statistics.

For myself I would leave this country tomorrow because political games are being played with this issue. Like John Lennon said- 'Just give me some truth!'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlzrNKN3rZI

[Colmc54]

It all comes down to trust. Do we trust the police, whoever we are and wherever we he come from.

Those who do not trust our police should tell us whatever it is the police should do instead that can guarantee the same degree of safety to the public who pay our government in taxation for the protection the government is meant to provide.

From them comes silence. How easy it is to criticise without the need to say what they would do to guarantee the public the same degree of safety.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237073/Killer-acquitted-teens-Boxing-Day-murder-Oxford-Street-admitting-knifed-victim-self-defence.html

[Orderlimit]

Don't trust the Stop Search Stats either Colmc54, they aren't that accurate. Due to the nightmare forms that can take up to 15 minutes each to fill out, officers usually only have time to submit forms for people / groups likely to complain.

[Colmc54]

Your comment is probably valid. Yet more than anything else, if the police are to continue with S and S, the public need to be able to have access to the statistics and demographic crime analyses used by the police that lead to a perception in the majority black population of London (they are no longer the minority) that they are being so unjustly treated by the police.

[whiskeryron]

I'm sorry to once again bring out the old chestnut but it is a fact that prior to the start of serious immigration way back, stop & search had never been heard of in this country. I rest my case !!!

[Colmc54]

Back then as a child, if copper saw you were misbehaving he'd give you a thick ear, and if you went home and told your dad he'd give you another one!

Perhaps back then police officers would just ask to search you and take you down the nick for obstructing them in the course of their enquiries if you refused. I doubt if there were any records as such and there would have been no name given to it such as Sand S today. But I'm sure it went on anyway under the general heading of routine policing.