Do Any 'ordinary' Artists, Writers, Poets, Come To Mind?

[bainbrig]

Most British writers (mainly the men) seem to have been awful husbands or partners, deserting them, having them locked up in asylums, whatever. None (if any) led 'ordinary' lives - caring for their families, loving their wives or children, etc.

Did ANY of them lead ordinary lives, and just happen to write?

BB

[woofgang]

BB nope, you can't do that.....well you can but it wouldn't be logical.... To quote JR Hartley (joke) "The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there." All we can do is judge "normal" and right and wrong by the standards of the time.

[woofgang]

if you want to know about the people I have suggested, then just google.

[ichkeria]

I suspect your analysis is shallow at best.
But does it matter?
Artistic temperament and all that ...

Sebastian Faulks is probably (yet another)obvious example of a British male writer untainted by the devil’s gene :-)

[retrocop]

Nah. No one wants to learn about ‘ right and normal’ . That does not titillate the interest. We want decadence, wrong and naughty thats nice juicy stuff to learn. :-)

[bainbrig]

No, nonsense (if the cap fits)...

It stems from re-reading the Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock and wondering how a man can behave so meanly and yet write so exquisitely. Not a new question but one that must be asked, again.

And the ‘standards of their time’ argument has long struck me as weak. Did ALL middle-class male Victorians behave like Dickens? Of course not.

[woofgang]

why should there be any correlation between behaviour and artistic ability?

[woofgang]

It was you BB who said "I don't want normal, I want right" or words to that effect.

[woofgang]

here's the quote " But that’s the point. Dickens’ behaviour, too, wasn’t ‘abnormal’ - he was behaving like many middle-class Englishmen in the mid-19th century. Wrong, but normal. " it was you who said his behaviour was normal for the time.

[maggiebee]

Ian Rankin. Ian has received an OBE for services to literature, opting to receive the prize in his home city of Edinburgh, where he lives with his wife and two sons.

[Tilly2]

I know he's not English but Bill Bryson comes over, in his books, as a thoroughly nice, normal, family loving man.

[bainbrig]

No, no correlation between behaviour and ability; I’m questioning our attitude, our responses, to (say) Elliot once you know about Mrs Elliot.

Can you really divorce one from the other and say (a) what a brilliant poet he was and (b) what a thorough $h!t he was?

All I can come up with is “He was a thorough $h!t who wrote brilliant poetry.”

BB

[jno]

AA Milne and Kenneth Grahame produced Winnie the Pooh and Wind in the Willows for their children, which was nice - though as it turned out both children were miserable about it.

But I think writing is an erratic trade that can't easily be confined to 40-hour weeks; so a man can't necessarily be an ideal father as well as a great artist. "There is no more sombre enemy of good art than the pram in the hall."

William Blake and his wife were famously in love. So were Robert Browning and Elizabeth Barrett. On the other hand, friends said it was for the best that Thomas and Jane Carlyle married, because otherwise four people would have been unhappy instead of just two.

[andy-hughes]

I believe that living with the creativity needed to become a successful artist - in any field of the arts - can be difficult for a variety of reasons.

Success beings adoration, and a lot of artists don't take well to being adored, it brings out the worst in them.

That said, I am sure that there are many many artists who live perfectly 'ordinary' lives - it's simply that such ordinariness is not something that interests the public. That means that bad behaviour is what gets reported, and can give a skewed impression of artists as a whole.

[woofgang]

I belive that Enid Blyton wasn't a wonderful mother either

[woofgang]

"thorough excement" so there was nothing whatsoever good about him?

[andy-hughes]

I always think of Gilby Clarke, a professional musician who spent three years in the madness that is Guns 'n' Roses, and is approaching the thirty year mark with his lovely wife Daniella - it can be done!

[woofgang]

Jno...I do wonder sometimes if childrens literature that was said to be produced for specific children actually was, or whether the said children were actually something of an excuse?

[andy-hughes]

bainbrig - // Can you really divorce one from the other and say (a) what a brilliant poet he was and (b) what a thorough $h!t he was? //

In my view, you absolutely can, yes.

I am a passionate advocate of the seperation of the art from the artist - it stops me not enjoying art from somone whose art I like, even though they may be a dreadful human being.

I don't believe that one detracts from the other, although I know that others don't think that way - the present Mrs Hughes is one, her recent enjoyment of a Who concert was tainted by her memory of the off-stage activities of Pete Townsend.

[woofgang]

Andy I see Mrs Hughes point. I really dislike to think that I am supporting anyone whose behaviour disgusts me. So I wouldn't purchase anything where they would receive royalties for instance.

[andy-hughes]

woofgang - // Andy I see Mrs Hughes point. I really dislike to think that I am supporting anyone whose behaviour disgusts me. So I wouldn't purchase anything where they would receive royalties for instance. //

This where we differ.

If I thought denying myself the enjoyment of a piece of art because of the behaviour of the artist would in any way cause the artist to think about their behaviour, or actually change it, I would deny myself in a heartbeat.

But the simple fact is, my denial would be unknown to the artist, and have no effect whatsoever, except for me, denying myself the art.

That to my mind would be a pointless gesture, although I completely accept that you will not agree, and I have no problem with that as a position.