ChatterBank1 min ago
I mourn the death of "me" and "you"
36 Answers
Why is it that suddenly "yourself" and "myself" are being inappropriately substituted for "you" and "me" ?In this age where most words are being shortened for texting purposes this change is very strange and really annoying. Rant over, thank you for reading it.
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No Jag that's just snobbery.
"haitch" is commonly used in much of Ireland, easily enogh to qualify as a legitimate variant - the hiberian (h)aitch
It's use got associated with the Irish and hence the "lower classes" - the snobbery of looking down on people that use it just got passed down from there
"haitch" is commonly used in much of Ireland, easily enogh to qualify as a legitimate variant - the hiberian (h)aitch
It's use got associated with the Irish and hence the "lower classes" - the snobbery of looking down on people that use it just got passed down from there
'Myself' has been used to mean 'I' or 'me' since the 1300s. For example Shakespeare, "Myself hath often heard them say..." (that is, I) and Burns, "He told myself by word of mouth..." (that is, me). Granted such usages are old-fashioned, but there's more to language than the need for abbreviations whilst texting. If some people want to bring back elements of the old ways...let 'em, I say! It all adds to the wonderful richness of English.
:-D @ jake-the-peg's analysis of when the rot set in :-D Look, it's not my country and language but we have the same kind of discussion over here (in Sweden), of course. Constantly.
Language is and has always been a living thing. It's an organism. Usages that don't fill a function fade away and die very quickly so sit back and relax:) What function, you may ask, could 'myself'' instead of 'me' or 'I' possibly fill? I don't know. Obviously *some* function! Sometimes it's just enjoyable to be able to choose between synonyms, sometimes you choose a certain synonym to display your identification with a certain group, sometimes a certain synonym sounds better - metrically, emphatically or otherwise - in a certain context than another option would have.* As QM says, your language is so wonderfully rich. We don't have a fraction of the words you do. Language doesn't become that rich by refusing to change. I was listening to Middle English the other day (so beautiful<3) and I couldn't make much sense of it. By the same token, our descendants wouldn't know if we were asking directions or trying to sell them a watch, if they met us on the street. ♫ ♪ It's a living thing... ♫ ♪ so get with the programme innit ;-)
Language is and has always been a living thing. It's an organism. Usages that don't fill a function fade away and die very quickly so sit back and relax:) What function, you may ask, could 'myself'' instead of 'me' or 'I' possibly fill? I don't know. Obviously *some* function! Sometimes it's just enjoyable to be able to choose between synonyms, sometimes you choose a certain synonym to display your identification with a certain group, sometimes a certain synonym sounds better - metrically, emphatically or otherwise - in a certain context than another option would have.* As QM says, your language is so wonderfully rich. We don't have a fraction of the words you do. Language doesn't become that rich by refusing to change. I was listening to Middle English the other day (so beautiful<3) and I couldn't make much sense of it. By the same token, our descendants wouldn't know if we were asking directions or trying to sell them a watch, if they met us on the street. ♫ ♪ It's a living thing... ♫ ♪ so get with the programme innit ;-)
*...and sometimes you just want to sound a bit Irish... This thread has made me remember 'Herself And Myself' but I can't remember if The Clancy Brothers sang it or the Dubliners...?
HERSELF AND MYSELF
by Patrick J. McCall
An Old Man's Song
TWAS beyond at Macreddin, at Owen Doyle's weddin', The boys got the pair of us out for a reel. Says I: "Boys, excuse us." Says they: "Don't refuse us." "I'll play nice and aisy," says Larry O'Neil. So off we went trippin' it, up an' down steppin' it —
Herself and Myself on the back of the doore; Till Molly—God bless her !—fell into the dresser, An' I tumbled over a child on the floore.
Says Herself to Myself: " We're as good as the best of them." Says Myself to Herself: "Sure, we're betther than gold." Says Herself to Myself: " We're as young as the rest o' them." Says Myself to Herself: " Troth, we'll never grow old."
As down the lane goin', I felt my heart growin'
As young as it was forty-five years ago. 'Twas here in this bbreen I first kissed my stbireen —
HERSELF AND MYSELF
by Patrick J. McCall
An Old Man's Song
TWAS beyond at Macreddin, at Owen Doyle's weddin', The boys got the pair of us out for a reel. Says I: "Boys, excuse us." Says they: "Don't refuse us." "I'll play nice and aisy," says Larry O'Neil. So off we went trippin' it, up an' down steppin' it —
Herself and Myself on the back of the doore; Till Molly—God bless her !—fell into the dresser, An' I tumbled over a child on the floore.
Says Herself to Myself: " We're as good as the best of them." Says Myself to Herself: "Sure, we're betther than gold." Says Herself to Myself: " We're as young as the rest o' them." Says Myself to Herself: " Troth, we'll never grow old."
As down the lane goin', I felt my heart growin'
As young as it was forty-five years ago. 'Twas here in this bbreen I first kissed my stbireen —
I think people's idea of proper use of language is normally what they were taught.
I do sympathise - especially when I hear someone ask "How are you?" and somebody else reply "I'm good".
But I recognise that things move on - "whom" is seriously endangered and I would think it's use in a decade or two will be fossilised to stock phrases like "for whom the bell tolls". Semi colons too are dropping out of use.
I make a bit of a special case though for apostrophes. Their misuse significantly changes the meaning of a sentence.
For me, that is the touchstone. Does it alter or confuse the meaning? - transmission of meaning is after all the primary purpose of language. Of is it merely a disagreement about asthetics or demostrating intellectual superiority?
I do sympathise - especially when I hear someone ask "How are you?" and somebody else reply "I'm good".
But I recognise that things move on - "whom" is seriously endangered and I would think it's use in a decade or two will be fossilised to stock phrases like "for whom the bell tolls". Semi colons too are dropping out of use.
I make a bit of a special case though for apostrophes. Their misuse significantly changes the meaning of a sentence.
For me, that is the touchstone. Does it alter or confuse the meaning? - transmission of meaning is after all the primary purpose of language. Of is it merely a disagreement about asthetics or demostrating intellectual superiority?
Good Morning to yourselves!
The use of a well placed semi-colon is a thing to admire. I, like most of you, find myself swinging from one end of grammatical snobbery to the defence of slang-based avant-gardism. This is not an untenable position however: look at Joyce! I still think we've not come close to that intelligence in language since!
All the best,
Spare Ed
The use of a well placed semi-colon is a thing to admire. I, like most of you, find myself swinging from one end of grammatical snobbery to the defence of slang-based avant-gardism. This is not an untenable position however: look at Joyce! I still think we've not come close to that intelligence in language since!
All the best,
Spare Ed
For myself , I see a use for 'myself' which is as as emphasis.That may be how Shakespeare was using it.Myself, I think it's important:" Did he hurt anyone important.?" " Only myself, that's all ! " or " It was enough to make a better man than myself go crazy "
It's also used in apposition to 'I' as in " I'm doing the filing for the boss now. You never know. I myself might be the boss one day" .
It's also used in apposition to 'I' as in " I'm doing the filing for the boss now. You never know. I myself might be the boss one day" .
