Nhs For Foreigners At Your Expense

[Khandro]

Is Melisa Kite's article in last week's Spectator, not only entertaining (as usual) but also food for thought?
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/my-solvent-israeli-friend-had-the-best-of-the-nhs-without-paying-a-penny/

[Khandro]

^^ Have you followed the case of J, Merion Thomas ?
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/01/the-curious-case-of-meirion-thomas/

[slaney]

As I have to go out, Khandro I am just going to C&P from my link...

So how much of that can we actually get back?
Good question, and the answer is essentially “we don’t know”. For a start, A&E treatment and GP visits aren’t (currently) subject to repayment.
Further, some migrants and visitors are entitled to free healthcare under certain circumstances: “These rules are complex,” according to the DoH report. For instance, says Appleby, “you wouldn’t want to charge someone who’s got typhoid, you’d just want to get them treated” – because if you charge them, they might not show up, and then they’re a public health risk. So treatment for some infectious diseases is exempt.
It’s also complicated finding out exactly how much is paid back, because under the agreement between EU countries, bills don’t have to be paid the same year they were received.
So it’s not really clear. But in short, the government estimates that about a quarter – £500 million – of the £1.96 billion spent is legally recoverable.

In fact, it’s not doing too badly at getting it back already.
That wasn’t true until recently. Just £89 million was reclaimed in the financial year 2012-13, according to the National Audit Office (NAO)’s estimates; that figure rose to a not-much-more-impressive £97 million in 2013-14 and 2014-15. But in 2015 the rules were changed, meaning that overseas students and temporary migrants no longer received free care. The amount retrieved immediately trebled to £289 million in 2015-16.
The NHS has set itself what the NAO calls an “ambitious” target of getting the whole £500 million by 2017-18, and according to the NAO’s projections will fall short – it’s on target to get about £346 million. But that’s still almost four times what it was getting just three years ago.

[Khandro]

Things may have improved since Thomas' article a couple of years ago;
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/04/international-health-service/
but I doubt it and don't readily accept the statistics on such matters.

[slaney]

J Meirion Thomas - I just love that he is shown as gagged in the Spectator piece.
that's not really true - he has received extensive coverage in the tabloids. The case was as far as I can remember an ex-pat who came home and had a bone marrow transplant at the Marsden.

And if I can't convince you with facts Khandro - ah well:)

[Khandro]

slaney; //that's not really true - he has received extensive coverage in the tabloids.//

You really need to see things in chronological order. Yes, he received the coverage you mention, but only after and because of the original piece which was (as I say above) two years ago in the Spectator and after which he was interviewed by the likes of the Daily Mail.

[New Judge]

Well, slaney, Mr Wormald said this:

“At our last count there are 62 Spanish … ” “Not 62,000?” interrupted the Conservative Richard Bacon. “62 Spanish pensioners,” said Hillier. “You’re kidding me.” “62 Spanish pensioners live in the UK and about 70,000 British pensioners live in Spain,” replied the bewildered Wormald, who couldn’t see what the fuss was about. “62?”

It is difficult to find definitive data (all I want to know is how many people living in the UK were born in Spain and are over 65, but it’s not easy). So a few broad assumptions must be made:

The 2011 census recorded that there were almost 80,000 Spanish-born people resident in England and Wales. This was an increase from 54,000 in 2001 and estimates for 2016 put the number at around 120,000, but I’ll stick with the 2011 figure (even though it refers to only England and Wales and not to th eUK as a whole as Mr Wormald did). Are we seriously to believe that only 62 (0.07%) of these are of pensionable age? This becomes more incredible when you consider that the proportion of all people aged over 65 in the UK is around 18%. However, I accept two things:

1. That there are far more British ex-pats living in retirement in Spain than vice-versa (after all, who would retire from Andalusia to live in Grimsby?).

2. I also accept that people upping sticks from Spain to settle in the UK would almost certainly include proportionately a larger number of younger people. However, those younger people eventually get older (and there were 54,000 living here fifteen years ago). Do we assume they all return to Spain when they hit pension age?

So I accept that the 18% applicable to the general population may not be appropriate for the Spaniards. But a difference of a factor of more than 250? This would mean that for the general population there are roughly 180 people in every thousand over 65 whilst among the Spaniards that figure is less than one. Even if the difference between the Spaniards and the general population was a factor of 10 (i.e. 1.8% Spaniards of retirement age) there would still be around 1500 Spaniards of retirement age here. I’m afraid I don’t buy it (especially as I know three of the supposed 62).

I’ll continue to look for some definitive figures and, of course, we don’t know what Mr Wormald means when he refers to “Spanish pensioners”. Does he mean all people over 65? Does he mean those in receipt of a Spanish State Pension? Who knows. But I think it is important not to accept glib remarks made by civil servants at face value. There is no reason at all to believe that the proportion of Spaniards over 65 in the UK is different by a factor of at least 250 from the proportion of the over 65s in the population in general. It was not surprising that Mr Wormald seemed bewildered at the fuss about “62 people”. He obviously accepted what somebody had told him. But, of course if he had done a few simple sums as I just have before he opened his mouth he would have realised that what he was saying may not be quite correct.

[Khandro]

NJ: I think an apology to the residents of Grimsby is in order.
Though it does remind me, that when Ken Dodd was once playing in Ipswich, he told the audience, "Ipswich isn't twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Grimsby."

[puzzled54]

I was sent a bill for the ambulance that was called for me after a traffic accident in 1998. I had to send the bill to my insurance company who claimed it back from the idiot that pulled out in front of me.

[EDDIE51]

I find it quite believable that a large majority of Spaniards who settle here during their working lives want to return to the warmth and friendships of their homeland in retirement. Quite possibly with a UK earned pension though!