Science5 mins ago
Alcoholic
36 Answers
I spent a lovely lunch with friends this week in a pub and a neighbour of one of the girls sauntered over to say hi.
Well he was off his box and continued to down pint after pint of Stella at the next table while we others chatted.
My friend later informed me this guy is jobless; understandable in this climate of course but he is also on incapacity benefit. What for?? Alcoholism!!
Now before I get myself in trouble let me make it clear I am completely aware that alcoholism is a disease and that it's many of its sufferers would gladly quit if they could. Just explain somebody why the Govt is giving this guy money for drink and not helping him get treatment?? I felt he should have bought me one as it is my money.
Well he was off his box and continued to down pint after pint of Stella at the next table while we others chatted.
My friend later informed me this guy is jobless; understandable in this climate of course but he is also on incapacity benefit. What for?? Alcoholism!!
Now before I get myself in trouble let me make it clear I am completely aware that alcoholism is a disease and that it's many of its sufferers would gladly quit if they could. Just explain somebody why the Govt is giving this guy money for drink and not helping him get treatment?? I felt he should have bought me one as it is my money.
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Masma - it's great to hear that your son has his family to help him - please keep encouraging him as 11 days without alcohol is very good. Can I just point out to other readers that people receiving Incapacity Benefit are not necessarily sponging off the state - many have had jobs for quite a long time, and paid their taxes as well, before they needed to go on Incapacity Benefit. Please don't tar all claimants wih the same brush.
Hi Red, interesting question. Of my older children ( who can remember me being a drunken nightmare) my eldest son does drink a lot, none of the others do and none do drugs either, but when I was a wreck, in and out of prison of course it affected them negatively. I was very lucky to find a very good woman who levelled me out and welcomed my children as her own, without whom we might have all ended up very differently. Now I think their experience of me drinking etc has actually made them aware of all sorts of situations and things they would otherwise be ignorant of and I think they are fairly tolerant for it, albeit I wish I had never been such a poor role model in the first place. Of my younger children, only my eldest daughter is really old enough (13) to comprehand what I used to be like, and she never witnessed that first hand, but like her older brothers is a very level tolerant person regarding people with addictions, the littler ones clearly haven't really got to the point where they think about it really I don't think.
My own father was a drunk but was also violent towards his family ( I was never that) and with hindsight I can forgive the drinking but not the violence ( which came whether he was drunk or not), but I can see both his drinking and his anger were symptoms of feeling very very badly about his life, the reasons for which though still escape me.
My own father was a drunk but was also violent towards his family ( I was never that) and with hindsight I can forgive the drinking but not the violence ( which came whether he was drunk or not), but I can see both his drinking and his anger were symptoms of feeling very very badly about his life, the reasons for which though still escape me.
Oh dear. Let's set the record straight. Alcoholism is classified as a disease and has has been classified as such for many years in the UK. Obtain a definition of disease if you remain in any doubt.
With regard to the merits of classifying alcoholism as a disease, I'd prefer not to support or criticise the arguments for or against. They are very complex and contain issues that have not been touched upon by others in this thread.
As far as providing alcoholics with money to fund their habits is concerned, I can provide a thought provoking comment on the matter. Originally, the additional payment was made by a certain UK government which decided that it was was more economical to give alcoholics money to purchase alcohol than to prosecute alcoholics for persistent shoplifting of alcohol. Consultations were conducted with retailers and this was considered to be the way to proceed and it got the vote of the retailers for obvious reasons. At the end of the day, all retailers desire money in the till.
I'd prefer not to disclose the amount registered alcoholics receive each week to fund their habit, but rest assured that theoretically, it's sufficient to keep them from out of the police/court system whether they drink lager or spirits.
Whilst the ethics of this are a perpetually debatable issue, I'm afraid the system by and large works - very few registered alcoholics shoplift.
With regard to the merits of classifying alcoholism as a disease, I'd prefer not to support or criticise the arguments for or against. They are very complex and contain issues that have not been touched upon by others in this thread.
As far as providing alcoholics with money to fund their habits is concerned, I can provide a thought provoking comment on the matter. Originally, the additional payment was made by a certain UK government which decided that it was was more economical to give alcoholics money to purchase alcohol than to prosecute alcoholics for persistent shoplifting of alcohol. Consultations were conducted with retailers and this was considered to be the way to proceed and it got the vote of the retailers for obvious reasons. At the end of the day, all retailers desire money in the till.
I'd prefer not to disclose the amount registered alcoholics receive each week to fund their habit, but rest assured that theoretically, it's sufficient to keep them from out of the police/court system whether they drink lager or spirits.
Whilst the ethics of this are a perpetually debatable issue, I'm afraid the system by and large works - very few registered alcoholics shoplift.
Islasmum thankyou for that input,I have worked since i was 16,I was diagnosed with ulcerated colitis over 28yrs ago and have worked full time /part time all of this time with a condition that is the worst bowel condition that i can describe. I have paid taxes, national insurance etc. now I am on Incapacity Benefit and let me tell you from so many years of working that this is something that I never thought i would ever have to be on, but i am. Degrading yes. But I have paid over 33yrs tax etc.
Sunflower68, the treatment you refer to is fragmented and varies considerably in the UK. Even within the best counties where treatment is available, attendance is voluntary and an alcoholic can walk out whenever he or she desires - forcing alcoholics down such a path would be considered to be a breach of their human rights.
As far as buying you a drink is concerned, your average alcoholic will tell you at times of lucidity that he or she "paid their taxes" for many years which entitles them now to claim off the state.
It's not an argument that can be pursued.
As far as buying you a drink is concerned, your average alcoholic will tell you at times of lucidity that he or she "paid their taxes" for many years which entitles them now to claim off the state.
It's not an argument that can be pursued.
sunflower68, let's imagine for a moment that you were receiving extensive and expensive treatment for a potentially fatal disease. Let's assume that you alcoholic acquaintance had fairly recently become an alcoholic.
Could he not say that the taxes he had paid during his working lifetime were were funding your treatment?
Could he not say that the taxes he had paid during his working lifetime were were funding your treatment?
Quite right kaffryn there are posters all over Cambs these days for Camquit and it is free I believe if you are on benefits.
I am not really making a point about the definition of alcoholic here though I do see your points. All I am saying is yes it is an addiction and it can be classed as a disease.
nox I think you are missing my point here it was not the gentleman but the system I have the problem with.
masma your son is most certainly a lucky man to have such good support.
theprof you made some very interesting points on alcoholism of which I was unaware however your final post has me puzzled and you fail to win me over here - how could I be happy for my taxes to go towards watching someone drink themselves to death doing the thing they love most in the world rather than curing someone with a different fatal disease? Surely it would be better spent on helping these poor souls? Why is there no substitute for alcohol as there is Nicorette and Methadone? I am no scientist but so much can be done scientifically these days. I can't see how an alcoholic who has paid taxes would resent somebody who is dying from being helped by the system.
I am not really making a point about the definition of alcoholic here though I do see your points. All I am saying is yes it is an addiction and it can be classed as a disease.
nox I think you are missing my point here it was not the gentleman but the system I have the problem with.
masma your son is most certainly a lucky man to have such good support.
theprof you made some very interesting points on alcoholism of which I was unaware however your final post has me puzzled and you fail to win me over here - how could I be happy for my taxes to go towards watching someone drink themselves to death doing the thing they love most in the world rather than curing someone with a different fatal disease? Surely it would be better spent on helping these poor souls? Why is there no substitute for alcohol as there is Nicorette and Methadone? I am no scientist but so much can be done scientifically these days. I can't see how an alcoholic who has paid taxes would resent somebody who is dying from being helped by the system.
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Sunflower68, it's not a question of happiness. It's easier for successive governments to fund an alcoholic habit weekly via the benefits system than to set up a nationwide program of help for alcoholics. I'm not only referring to cost but also to the logistics of setting up such a programme. In financial terms, it's really a non-starter and I'm afraid that finances are what it's all about nowadays.
The idea of helping these poor souls is admirable, but in real terms it would be too costly.
Turning to methadone first, it's as well to remember that methadone is not just used to wean addicts off more powerful drugs. Methadone is a recognised powerful narcotic in its own right that is often administered in the form of methadone linctus to those in intractable pain especially those who are unable to swallow tablets during terminal illness. Methadone belongs to the opioid drugs group just like morphine and diamorphine (heroin). Methadone is in itself addictive.
Nicorette is a form of nicotine replacement therapy and are regarded as aids to smoking cessation for those smoking more than 10 cigarettes per day. NICE guidance stipulates that nicotine replacement therapy should only be used in those patients that commit to a target stop date. It therefore cannot be regarded in the same light as methadone therapy.
Due to the unique way that ethanol reacts in the body, it's unlikely there will ever be a true substitute for it. Metabolically, no other chemical behaves in the same manner and that includes structurally similar alcohols. This is why the "synthahol" featured in a number of Star Trek: The Next Generation episodes is really a non-starter.
With regard to your last point, alcoholics resent nothing unless it impacts on their ability to purchase or obtain a source of their preferred drink.
The idea of helping these poor souls is admirable, but in real terms it would be too costly.
Turning to methadone first, it's as well to remember that methadone is not just used to wean addicts off more powerful drugs. Methadone is a recognised powerful narcotic in its own right that is often administered in the form of methadone linctus to those in intractable pain especially those who are unable to swallow tablets during terminal illness. Methadone belongs to the opioid drugs group just like morphine and diamorphine (heroin). Methadone is in itself addictive.
Nicorette is a form of nicotine replacement therapy and are regarded as aids to smoking cessation for those smoking more than 10 cigarettes per day. NICE guidance stipulates that nicotine replacement therapy should only be used in those patients that commit to a target stop date. It therefore cannot be regarded in the same light as methadone therapy.
Due to the unique way that ethanol reacts in the body, it's unlikely there will ever be a true substitute for it. Metabolically, no other chemical behaves in the same manner and that includes structurally similar alcohols. This is why the "synthahol" featured in a number of Star Trek: The Next Generation episodes is really a non-starter.
With regard to your last point, alcoholics resent nothing unless it impacts on their ability to purchase or obtain a source of their preferred drink.
