ChatterBank8 mins ago
So Called Intelligent Design ... Actually Kind Of Dumb Isnt It?
77 Answers
people claim that gods way is 'intelligent' design ... on the basis that we are just too well made to have happened naturally - and that god only cares about us and thats why animals dont have souls etc
but if that was the case, and god only cared about humans and made the world for our benefit, then why is there are a whole load of utterly pointless and dangerous creatures in it?
if the sole purpose of earth is to home humans - why is so much of it inhospitable, dangerous and just horrible?
he cannot blame us for all this - blame our freewill - which is the excuse he usually uses for anything bad that happens - because we did not create bacteria, volcanoes, termites, swamps etc etc
now i know with the worlds ecosystems in place all these things are necessary - but why have eco systems at all?
why make it so we need insects and bacteria etc?
why isnt the planet just covered in stuff that doesnt need any sort of ecosystem - surely the really intelligent thing would have been to make everything self contained? and nice. and clean. etc
why arent the only living species on the planet, humans and human food - ie cows, pigs etc ... and maybe a few that are just nice, like cats and dogs etc?
why create all the stuff we never need or even see and can kill us?
so whats so intelligent about it?
if you worked in a company and were tasked with creating a species and habitat for them - you would be sacked in utter disgrace if you created somewhere that looks nice for them ... and then added a load of pointless stuff, wasted spaces and dangerous stuff ...wouldnt you?
no-one would be calling you 'intelligent'
we dont design our houses to be full of dangerous and inhospitable areas do we? and we do our best to keep anything dangerous out... we aim to make it as nice and comfortable as possible....so why hasnt god done the same?
the world is full of amazing, wonderful and interesting things, but surely thats not the only reason for their existence? - just for us to look at pictures of them in books and go 'ooh, cool!' - because most humans will never ever see most of it for real.
so, creationists, can you tell me why he did it this way?
but if that was the case, and god only cared about humans and made the world for our benefit, then why is there are a whole load of utterly pointless and dangerous creatures in it?
if the sole purpose of earth is to home humans - why is so much of it inhospitable, dangerous and just horrible?
he cannot blame us for all this - blame our freewill - which is the excuse he usually uses for anything bad that happens - because we did not create bacteria, volcanoes, termites, swamps etc etc
now i know with the worlds ecosystems in place all these things are necessary - but why have eco systems at all?
why make it so we need insects and bacteria etc?
why isnt the planet just covered in stuff that doesnt need any sort of ecosystem - surely the really intelligent thing would have been to make everything self contained? and nice. and clean. etc
why arent the only living species on the planet, humans and human food - ie cows, pigs etc ... and maybe a few that are just nice, like cats and dogs etc?
why create all the stuff we never need or even see and can kill us?
so whats so intelligent about it?
if you worked in a company and were tasked with creating a species and habitat for them - you would be sacked in utter disgrace if you created somewhere that looks nice for them ... and then added a load of pointless stuff, wasted spaces and dangerous stuff ...wouldnt you?
no-one would be calling you 'intelligent'
we dont design our houses to be full of dangerous and inhospitable areas do we? and we do our best to keep anything dangerous out... we aim to make it as nice and comfortable as possible....so why hasnt god done the same?
the world is full of amazing, wonderful and interesting things, but surely thats not the only reason for their existence? - just for us to look at pictures of them in books and go 'ooh, cool!' - because most humans will never ever see most of it for real.
so, creationists, can you tell me why he did it this way?
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"we are just too well made to have happened naturally" . . . what that really means is that quite a few things are complex and difficult to understand without a lengthy scientific education. So let's claim things we don't understand must have been "created" rather than evolved, because that idea is so much simpler to get our unthinking little brains round.
"I don't understand how an eye works, so it must have been created". Nonsense. Eyes, for instance, have developed at least four different times, and there is evidence for many stages in those developments.
Read what it says in the Bible - ( Jeremiah) "O foolish people and without understanding , which have eyes and see not, which have ears and hear not"
"Creationists" need to stop saying " because I don't get it, there must be a Creator" - and take a few science courses.
"I don't understand how an eye works, so it must have been created". Nonsense. Eyes, for instance, have developed at least four different times, and there is evidence for many stages in those developments.
Read what it says in the Bible - ( Jeremiah) "O foolish people and without understanding , which have eyes and see not, which have ears and hear not"
"Creationists" need to stop saying " because I don't get it, there must be a Creator" - and take a few science courses.
This world does not have anything that has no use. It's only perhaps we do not know. Having said that this world is temporary and that is the reason people question certain things.
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keyplus - you are also missing the point.
i know quite well that everything in the world has a function etc - but only depending on everything else that is here - that is whats called an eco system - every relying on other things to exist and also helping other things.
these things are only necessary in the state the world is in now - but what it the world wasnt the way it is?
what if god had made it differently?
what if he had made it so none of that stuff was necessary?
my point is creationists believe the only reason the earth was created was for humans ... so therefore why bother to create all those other things that we wont like, use, or even see?
why make a world dependant on all that stuff? why not make one that doesnt need any of it?
keep in mind that apparently god made every single thing on this earth - including the actual earth itself ...
i know quite well that everything in the world has a function etc - but only depending on everything else that is here - that is whats called an eco system - every relying on other things to exist and also helping other things.
these things are only necessary in the state the world is in now - but what it the world wasnt the way it is?
what if god had made it differently?
what if he had made it so none of that stuff was necessary?
my point is creationists believe the only reason the earth was created was for humans ... so therefore why bother to create all those other things that we wont like, use, or even see?
why make a world dependant on all that stuff? why not make one that doesnt need any of it?
keep in mind that apparently god made every single thing on this earth - including the actual earth itself ...
-- answer removed --
What is intelligence? An ant colony is to my mind far more intelligent than a human. They live to protect their species and have even evolved into different shapes within the species to enable them to do various tasks.
If they are too successful their food source dwindles and so lower their numbers to stay in step with Nature.
Now about intelligent humans.... To prevent from being depressed about the mysterious parts of Nature, they invented imaginary deities to explain the unexplainable. Some enterprising greedy ones saw this as an opportunity to rule the gullible and increase the number of followers by instilling fear of dissension into them with the promise of cruel and inhuman atrocities.
If they are too successful their food source dwindles and so lower their numbers to stay in step with Nature.
Now about intelligent humans.... To prevent from being depressed about the mysterious parts of Nature, they invented imaginary deities to explain the unexplainable. Some enterprising greedy ones saw this as an opportunity to rule the gullible and increase the number of followers by instilling fear of dissension into them with the promise of cruel and inhuman atrocities.
I spoke too soon - seems we are not so well designed after all - http://
Getting rid of, or putting there in the first place, is not a significant difference. Either it is needed or it is not. I'm saying what we see there is needed, that if something gets removed then it would need to be replaced by something similar before long in order to keep things working properly again, and it does.
There are many more important arguments against the easily-refuted idea of Intelligent Design than are being discussed here, but one assumption that has been made is interesting - that we are so well designed.
There are many aspects of the human body that would never have been done that way by an intelligent human designer. They eye, for example, is a pretty poor sensor (hardly to be compared with a video camera) with its deficiencies having to made up for by the brain.
Commonsense would say that the connections from the rods and cones on the retina should pass out through the back towards the optical nerve but, instead, they go around the front, right in front of the picture they are detecting.
The fact is that all those things which could be better are easily explained by the evolutionary process which gives no guarantee that mutations which improve the organism will make 100% engineering sense. They merely make things better not perfect.
To get a good idea of all the relics of previous organisms in our present bodies read a good book about evolution. Dawkins is first-rate on this subject.
There are many aspects of the human body that would never have been done that way by an intelligent human designer. They eye, for example, is a pretty poor sensor (hardly to be compared with a video camera) with its deficiencies having to made up for by the brain.
Commonsense would say that the connections from the rods and cones on the retina should pass out through the back towards the optical nerve but, instead, they go around the front, right in front of the picture they are detecting.
The fact is that all those things which could be better are easily explained by the evolutionary process which gives no guarantee that mutations which improve the organism will make 100% engineering sense. They merely make things better not perfect.
To get a good idea of all the relics of previous organisms in our present bodies read a good book about evolution. Dawkins is first-rate on this subject.
chakka - no of course we are not perfect and there are many many things about our body that, if we had been made by god, would be classed as a cockup
thats kind of my point for this post really - because creationists conveniently ignore all the problems and believe that all the amazing bits prove that nature could not not have made them.
thats kind of my point for this post really - because creationists conveniently ignore all the problems and believe that all the amazing bits prove that nature could not not have made them.
"Oh OG, please reread the posts - you are not understanding my point here at all."
I beg to differ, I think the point is understood and answered. Maybe your disagreement is down to not understanding my points ? That, the question as to why there are so many things you consider pointless and/or dangerous, is countered by the claim that you have no way of knowing what is really pointless.
"no of course we are not perfect and there are many many things about our body that, if we had been made by god, would be classed as a cockup thats kind of my point for this post really"
"The obvious problem with intelligent creationism is that many things could be better than they are, had they been designed rather than just stumbled across something that worked."
I beg to differ, I think the point is understood and answered. Maybe your disagreement is down to not understanding my points ? That, the question as to why there are so many things you consider pointless and/or dangerous, is countered by the claim that you have no way of knowing what is really pointless.
"no of course we are not perfect and there are many many things about our body that, if we had been made by god, would be classed as a cockup thats kind of my point for this post really"
"The obvious problem with intelligent creationism is that many things could be better than they are, had they been designed rather than just stumbled across something that worked."
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