Driving Procedure Query

[needawin]

My grand daughter has been out with 2 driving instructors for some time. Has failed test few times.
I took her out today for a run. At the lights she was sitting in gear constantly with the hand break not applied. I thought there was a strict rule. Handbreak on, out of gear.
She says she was never told this by either instructor and the tester at the tests did not comment when she did it.
Have things changed? Surely it is common sense to follow that rule. If only to save the clutch!

[Canary42]

I also learnt your way - but that was 50 years ago so may have changed.

[Hopkirk]

I agree that the handbrake should be on, but surely out of gear is not necessary - particularly if you are expecting to go soon.

It doesn't save the clutch, just your leg muscles.

[Buenchico]

I suspect that your granddaughter simply needs to pay more attention to what she's taught ;-)

(Of course you're correct).

[furrypusscat]

As a former driving instructor I always taught to apply hand brake first then take out of gear. Plenty of time to select gear when lights change. That is the safe and correct procedure.

[furrypusscat]

Hopkirk, it doesn't do your clutch any good and what happens if you inadvertently relax your foot and your car stalls and lurches forward even when the handbrake is applied it will still move forward.

[Hypognosis]

Wear and tear on the clutch is caused by the 'bite' part of the procedure. When fully engaged, or disengaged, there isn't any plate wear occurring.

[vulcan42]

A quote from the Institute of advanced motorists manual. After explaining about burning out the clutch by holding the vehicle in gear, it ends by"It is far safer, and in the long run cheaper, to use the handbrake, as you were taught to do for the Government driving test".

[furrypusscat]

Ok, won't do damage if fully depressed but how many people sit at the ready with clutch part way up, still not a safe procedure.

[Retrochic]

When I come to a temporary halt I go into neutral and keep my foot on the foot brake. How can you keep in gear, disengage the clutch and keep your foot on the foot brake at the same time?

[Hypognosis]

I thought the part about the handbrake is to prevent the car being propelled forward by something colliding into the car's rear. That is, if hit from behind, your foot may come off the clutch and then you will by pushed and powered forward into either the vehicle in front of you (a your-fault accident) or, worse, i to the intersection, with risk of side impacts.

I haven't re-read the code in many a year so I forget if it is a compulsory action or merely a safety advisory. (whisper: I reckon as many don't bother as do)

[237SJ]

I thought I read (on here) that they don`t teach the handbrake on, clutch disengaged rule anymore. I`m disinclined to search for the thread though.

[ummmm]

I'm guilty of doing what Retro does. I remember getting told off for it. If you don't have the handbrake on and the car is in neutral and someone hits you the car won't stall.

[ummmm]

I'll find out when my son gets home. He's currently taking lessons.

[Hymie]

When I took my test back in the 70s this is what was expected.
Woe betides you if you stalled the vehicle, the handbrake had to be applied, taken out of gear into neutral before re-starting the engine.

I think now a pragmatic approach to such situations is taken – as long as the procedure does not present a hazard in terms of the overall control of the vehicle – then it is deemed acceptable.

The only strain on the clutch system (while holding the clutch pedal down) is to the cable; whereas taking the vehicle out of gear and releasing the clutch involves twice the number of clutch operations and so could be argued wears the clutch system to a greater extent.
Nevertheless both procedures only involve one disengagement and one re-engagement of the drive to the road wheels.

[Hypognosis]

@retrochic

//How can you keep in gear, disengage the clutch and keep your foot on the foot brake at the same time?//

clutch pedal down (left foot)
brake pedal depressed (right foot)
accelerator: at idle (no foot)
Handbrake: (for hill start routine, or as desired)

[needawin]

Someone has yet to answer the question. Will you be penalised in the test for doing it? Any testers out there?

[Buenchico]

>>>Someone has yet to answer the question. Will you be penalised in the test for doing it?

Actually, if you read through your original post you'll see that you never asked it!

Your granddaughter needs to look at the test reports she will have been given:
http://www.a-class-driving.com/practical-driving-test.php
In particular she should look at Section 12, under 'Parking Brake'. If there's a number in the second box, that's the number of handbrake-related faults that were identified. It won't, on its own, result in a failure but it contributes towards the total number of points that have to be considered. However if there's a mark in either of the 3rd or 4th boxes ('serious' or 'dangerous') then it means an automatic failure.

[derekpara]

I am not a driving test examiner and I passed my test many years ago but I believe that you would fail the standard driving test if you stayed in gear at the lights with the handbrake off.

I know with certainty that I would not have passed the IAM driving test five years ago if I had done it. Correct IAM procedure , as furrypussycat says, is handbrake on (button depressed), into nuetral, feet off pedals.

D

[needawin]

That was not one of the points ever mentioned in the fail