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Atheism is a belief system just as as desists believe in God.
The something from nothing explanation of the origins of the universe are irrational an d illogical, the twin pillars that atheists cite to support their beliefs.
Approximately one third of the Bible is prophecy, and a serious examination of its prophetic claims reveals an accuracy that cannot be explained away other than the fact that that some supernatural power is involved. Inbelieve that the power involved is the Almighty God of the Bible.
The Bible claims that the arrogance of men will blind them to the Truth, as they trust only in their own wisdom.
The crucifixion of Christ appears to be to be stupid and belief in Him foolish, but that is the point. Only by humility and repentance will the fullness of Jesus Christ be revealed to the pilgrim who in humility, asks God, to reveal Himself in that persons life.
The atheist will object of course, because this does not involve a repeatable laboratory objective experiment, but invites the sinner to embark on a journey of subjective and personal interaction with the person of Jesus Christ, and that journey to be moderated by the authority of scripture.
Those who refuse, should they have reputation, qualification, and the respect and adoration of men, will remain blind, and laugh at the foolishness of Christ.
That happens here on Answerbank all of the time.
I will not get into a fine tuned argument with any of you, because my relationship with Christ does not depend on it, but I urge you to investigate yourselves. Laugh at me if you like, but this life will end, and then what for you?
By the way, I am not some miserable old sod who lives in fear of death, but a family man who enjoys my God given days on earth, and wants you also to experience a relationship with Jesus Christ.God bless you all. Apologies for typos.
The something from nothing explanation of the origins of the universe are irrational an d illogical, the twin pillars that atheists cite to support their beliefs.
Approximately one third of the Bible is prophecy, and a serious examination of its prophetic claims reveals an accuracy that cannot be explained away other than the fact that that some supernatural power is involved. Inbelieve that the power involved is the Almighty God of the Bible.
The Bible claims that the arrogance of men will blind them to the Truth, as they trust only in their own wisdom.
The crucifixion of Christ appears to be to be stupid and belief in Him foolish, but that is the point. Only by humility and repentance will the fullness of Jesus Christ be revealed to the pilgrim who in humility, asks God, to reveal Himself in that persons life.
The atheist will object of course, because this does not involve a repeatable laboratory objective experiment, but invites the sinner to embark on a journey of subjective and personal interaction with the person of Jesus Christ, and that journey to be moderated by the authority of scripture.
Those who refuse, should they have reputation, qualification, and the respect and adoration of men, will remain blind, and laugh at the foolishness of Christ.
That happens here on Answerbank all of the time.
I will not get into a fine tuned argument with any of you, because my relationship with Christ does not depend on it, but I urge you to investigate yourselves. Laugh at me if you like, but this life will end, and then what for you?
By the way, I am not some miserable old sod who lives in fear of death, but a family man who enjoys my God given days on earth, and wants you also to experience a relationship with Jesus Christ.God bless you all. Apologies for typos.
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The reason you won't get a fine-tuned argument is because your idea of one is apparently one where eventually we accept Jesus into our lives. While you are not alone in defining an argument in that sort of way it hardly makes for a promising start to any debate. Both sides should implicitly be prepared to change their minds or accept at least part of the other's arguments. That isn't going to happen here.
Theland, Atheism is not a belief system and there is no connection between it and the origin of the universe. There is however a connection between belief in a god that is alleged to have created the universe from nothing and the origin of the universe.
I am glad that you have a fulfillig relationship with your chosen deities but I really don't need to know.
I am glad that you have a fulfillig relationship with your chosen deities but I really don't need to know.
//The atheist will object of course, because this does not involve a repeatable laboratory objective experiment//
I don’t object for that reason. I object because the very notion that you know what is responsible for the creation the universe is simply unreasonable. Assessing God’s history and looking at the possibility rationally, your claim cannot be justified. That God had his weaknesses. He wasn’t omniscient, and neither was he omnipotent – on one occasion iron chariots defeated him, so where is the logic in your claim?
The concept of sin is an exceedingly cruel one designed to play havoc with human emotion, engendering fear and guilt, and destroying man’s confidence in his own intellect – and it works.
As for prophecy, I assume you’re thinking predominately of the Jews returning to the ‘Promised Land’, but if you consider it realistically, their sole purpose was always to return, and given that the powers at the time supported them it’s not difficult to see how they eventually succeeded. There was nothing wondrous about it – they simply didn’t forget and they didn’t allow anyone else to forget either. And Jesus too knew all about prophecy – or more fairly the anonymous authors who embellished his story were well aware of what was expected of the messiah - and hence Jesus became, on paper at least, a master in its fulfilment – even down to riding on a donkey into Jerusalem.
Whoever constructed this whole narrative knew a bit about psychology.
Atheism isn’t a belief system.
I don’t object for that reason. I object because the very notion that you know what is responsible for the creation the universe is simply unreasonable. Assessing God’s history and looking at the possibility rationally, your claim cannot be justified. That God had his weaknesses. He wasn’t omniscient, and neither was he omnipotent – on one occasion iron chariots defeated him, so where is the logic in your claim?
The concept of sin is an exceedingly cruel one designed to play havoc with human emotion, engendering fear and guilt, and destroying man’s confidence in his own intellect – and it works.
As for prophecy, I assume you’re thinking predominately of the Jews returning to the ‘Promised Land’, but if you consider it realistically, their sole purpose was always to return, and given that the powers at the time supported them it’s not difficult to see how they eventually succeeded. There was nothing wondrous about it – they simply didn’t forget and they didn’t allow anyone else to forget either. And Jesus too knew all about prophecy – or more fairly the anonymous authors who embellished his story were well aware of what was expected of the messiah - and hence Jesus became, on paper at least, a master in its fulfilment – even down to riding on a donkey into Jerusalem.
Whoever constructed this whole narrative knew a bit about psychology.
Atheism isn’t a belief system.
Atheism is not, and cannot, be its own belief system.
Not believing in Unicorns is not its own belief system.....and the principle is exactly the same.
Please can you give me, say.....4 separate 'fulfilled' prophecies given in the Bible?
I know which will be your first because it's the one you always turn to, but i don't recall you mentioning any others.
It's a little arrogant to imply that only you, and those who have 'a relationship with Jesus', have a better quality of life now and can expect a better quality hereafter.
Apart from the (man-written) Scripture you rely on, where is your proof for this?
Not believing in Unicorns is not its own belief system.....and the principle is exactly the same.
Please can you give me, say.....4 separate 'fulfilled' prophecies given in the Bible?
I know which will be your first because it's the one you always turn to, but i don't recall you mentioning any others.
It's a little arrogant to imply that only you, and those who have 'a relationship with Jesus', have a better quality of life now and can expect a better quality hereafter.
Apart from the (man-written) Scripture you rely on, where is your proof for this?
Naomi and I have had our disagreements on this and other sections, but I have to admire and support fully her succinct argument posted at 08:36.
Theland - atheism is not a 'belief system', it is the precise opposite - it is the absence of a belief system.
I am pleased that you are obviously so happy in your life, supported by the love of a god your believe in.
Conversely, I am equally happy without your god in my life - and who is to say which of us is right?
The simple issue I have with Christians, as you so amply demonstrate with your post, is this head-shaking tutting attitude that Christians have, that you have the best of life, and anyone who doesn't is foolish, and missing out on something they need.
For the record, I am neither, but thanks for the thought.
Theland - atheism is not a 'belief system', it is the precise opposite - it is the absence of a belief system.
I am pleased that you are obviously so happy in your life, supported by the love of a god your believe in.
Conversely, I am equally happy without your god in my life - and who is to say which of us is right?
The simple issue I have with Christians, as you so amply demonstrate with your post, is this head-shaking tutting attitude that Christians have, that you have the best of life, and anyone who doesn't is foolish, and missing out on something they need.
For the record, I am neither, but thanks for the thought.
From my side, atheism is a choice of belief just as much as any religion is. I can't prove (personally) a single thing about atoms or reactions or evolution, but I'm content with the described and revisitable evidence provided by others.
I can't prove whether Joshua Ben Joseph was the risen anointed one or not - lots of people were making mystical claims around the same time and place that the christian movement started.
Many people held passionate, genuine religious beliefs before christianity, and many continue to. They were are good people as are compassionate, kind, altruistic atheists. There are also rotten *** in all religions and who are atheists.
If the overarching deity is also compassionate, kind and good then these qualities will surely be recognised.
If the deity needs me to kneel, bow in a certain direction or do three cartwheels on a Wednesday it all comes off a bit daft, dontcha think?
I can't prove whether Joshua Ben Joseph was the risen anointed one or not - lots of people were making mystical claims around the same time and place that the christian movement started.
Many people held passionate, genuine religious beliefs before christianity, and many continue to. They were are good people as are compassionate, kind, altruistic atheists. There are also rotten *** in all religions and who are atheists.
If the overarching deity is also compassionate, kind and good then these qualities will surely be recognised.
If the deity needs me to kneel, bow in a certain direction or do three cartwheels on a Wednesday it all comes off a bit daft, dontcha think?
I am an atheist because I do not believe without evidence. I believe the natural colour of the clear sky is blue, because I have enough evidence to prove it. I believe that certain trees usually produce apples, because that is a fact. If you expect me to believe that a religion is true, it is not enough to wave bits of printed paper under my nose and say " that is true, you must believe it because the book itself says it is true and I say it is true.". I could do the same with a book of fairy tales, and demand that you believe in witches, magic spells and super-powers.
What's the difference ? - except brainwashing and blinkering by indoctrinated parents, schools and priesthood.
What's the difference ? - except brainwashing and blinkering by indoctrinated parents, schools and priesthood.
Stephen Fry offered a powerful argument in favour of his personal atheism, when asked by chat show host Gay Byrne what he (Fry) would say to God if he came face to face.
Fry's response started (addressed to God) - 'How dare you!' - and went on from there in a similarly typical equally trenchant and well-expressed opinion.
It's on YouTube.
Fry's response started (addressed to God) - 'How dare you!' - and went on from there in a similarly typical equally trenchant and well-expressed opinion.
It's on YouTube.
The OP is all over the place.
Anything that claims to know something for which there is no evidence, is a belief. Atheists have some mileage in claiming that they do not wish to accept a conjecture for which there is no proof that they find acceptable; and that, that makes all the difference. But the meaning of "Atheism" is a belief/certainty that there is no God, not a belief in there is possibly or probably no God. Although many claim to be atheists yet argue the definition in order not to have to admit theirs is such a belief. There is a difference to that which deists accept, but not such a large one in my opinion. Just a difference of degree and direction.
Interesting one then turns to Christianity immediately as if there were no other options.
Prophesy is a weird thing. Make it vague enough or wait long enough (or both) and sooner or later something will happen that will allow believers to claim that was what was being hinted at, that the prophesy has been fulfilled. But it is not rigorous proof of anything and therefore of little value. All that has occurred is the pattern of the "prophesy" has finally been spotted.
I see little evidence there was any choice in whether any individual was crucified or not. Upset the authorities and you get their wrath to deal with. Only a believer is going to accept/insist it was all deliberately God’s will.
Telling folk they are blind for not blindly believing, will convince no one. It is surely an embarrassing claim to make.
If you believe, then good for you. I hope it aids you in your life. But your genuine and fervent present belief is no proof that you are correct, to anyone.
Anything that claims to know something for which there is no evidence, is a belief. Atheists have some mileage in claiming that they do not wish to accept a conjecture for which there is no proof that they find acceptable; and that, that makes all the difference. But the meaning of "Atheism" is a belief/certainty that there is no God, not a belief in there is possibly or probably no God. Although many claim to be atheists yet argue the definition in order not to have to admit theirs is such a belief. There is a difference to that which deists accept, but not such a large one in my opinion. Just a difference of degree and direction.
Interesting one then turns to Christianity immediately as if there were no other options.
Prophesy is a weird thing. Make it vague enough or wait long enough (or both) and sooner or later something will happen that will allow believers to claim that was what was being hinted at, that the prophesy has been fulfilled. But it is not rigorous proof of anything and therefore of little value. All that has occurred is the pattern of the "prophesy" has finally been spotted.
I see little evidence there was any choice in whether any individual was crucified or not. Upset the authorities and you get their wrath to deal with. Only a believer is going to accept/insist it was all deliberately God’s will.
Telling folk they are blind for not blindly believing, will convince no one. It is surely an embarrassing claim to make.
If you believe, then good for you. I hope it aids you in your life. But your genuine and fervent present belief is no proof that you are correct, to anyone.
//Anything that claims to know something for which there is no evidence, is a belief. Atheists have some mileage in claiming that they do not wish to accept a conjecture for which there is no proof that they find acceptable; and that, that makes all the difference. But the meaning of "Atheism" is a belief/certainty that there is no God, not a belief in there is possibly or probably no God. Although many claim to be atheists yet argue the definition in order not to have to admit theirs is such a belief. There is a difference to that which deists accept, but not such a large one in my opinion. Just a difference of degree and direction.//
While your definition of atheism may be true for many, it is not inclusive of those who came to the conclusion that no gods exist honestly and with much effort of thought, nor with those who have come to no conclusions whatsoever about the issue of a gods existence.
Actually, 'atheist' was originally used by theists as a pejorative term towards those who did/do not subscribe to their particular beliefs in and of who god was/is further complimented with all the assorted sordid baggage they could burden the non-believer with. That is for one the reason I generally don't adopt that as a definitive label to describe my non-theistic view of reality.
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While your definition of atheism may be true for many, it is not inclusive of those who came to the conclusion that no gods exist honestly and with much effort of thought, nor with those who have come to no conclusions whatsoever about the issue of a gods existence.
Actually, 'atheist' was originally used by theists as a pejorative term towards those who did/do not subscribe to their particular beliefs in and of who god was/is further complimented with all the assorted sordid baggage they could burden the non-believer with. That is for one the reason I generally don't adopt that as a definitive label to describe my non-theistic view of reality.
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Believers are the handmaidens of prophecy and sponsors of delusion.
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