ChatterBank22 mins ago
Isn't newborn circumcision a denial of human rights?
25 Answers
I don't beleive that anyone should have any part of thier body altered before they are old enough to make the decision themselves, even ear peircings and the like. What are other peoples opinions? and is religion a valid exception? If my parents had me unnecessarily circumcised I don't think I'd view them with the same respect.
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The following is a great article you might find very interesting, http://www.norm-uk.org/page.html?action=showitem&item=885.
I completely agree, there are also other things that we tend to overlook when it comes to children. How about choosing their religion or insisting on smoking next to them despite the fact they might object to passive smoking and cancer risk.
Great topic am gonna follow it with interest.
S.
I think the argument for circumcision is health driven (unless it is religious reasons), as it is supposed to reduce the instances of penile cancer, urinary infections, phimosis, inflammation, and even sexually transmitted diseases. Besides having more visual appeal ? !
It is surely better to have it carried out as a baby than to wait till one can decide for oneself, and have to go through it then - far more painful.
It is surely better to have it carried out as a baby than to wait till one can decide for oneself, and have to go through it then - far more painful.
Hey CN!
I see your point, after all male circumcision is very much part of a norm in our society (thanks to men not being able to remember it). Would they follow the health advice and put up with the pain and discomfort otherwise though?
My mind sort of jumps from one issue with this to another. But the one that seems to recur in this case is mastectomy. Can you imagine women having their breast tissue removed without their say so just because of the risk of breast cancer?
S.
PS. I still need convincing re visual appeal.
Good question. I can understand why circumcision was introduced in desert climates when personal hygiene issues could develop into serious health problems, but whether these same rules should apply today is a debatable point. However, I cannot imagine established religions relinquishing such an ancient practice and I certainly wouldn't feel inclined to make an issue of it.
Is circumcision that big an issue in Europe? I've only had daughters, but would not have allowed any sons to undergo this procedure. I can honestly say I've never seen a circumcised penis 'in the flesh' and I'm 35. Is that unusual??
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It's true that the US tend to circumcise and the UK do not as our friends who live in Florida decided not to circumcise their son and were very much in the minority.I have seven sons none of whom were circumcised and niether were myself or my brother and in Europe that is considered to be normal and it's very unusual for there to be any negative health implications for a man as long as his personal hygeine is good. There is a reduction in sexual pleasure if a man is circumcised so I'm quite glad I wasn't plus of course why try to improve on nature if there is no medical reason to do so? Some circumcised men suffer from dryness of the skin that uncircumcised men do not as the foreskin is a unique piece of tissue in the body as well as circumcision potentially causing the penis to bend and in extreme cases babies do actually die as a result of circumcision so it's not something I would ever entertain for my sons unless it was a last resort.Would anyone feel it was ok to hack a baby's ear off at birth in case he later got an ear infection? I don't think so, yet we mutilate our sons without a second thought on the supposition that he may require it later.
Circumcision is a very argued subject even between Dr's. I have met many men that in adult hood became very infected and as a man had to (awake) get the skin sniped.. They have very painful memories and wish there parents would have done it to them as a baby...Since that is when all the sences are not developed yet and can handle it much better.. In some house holds the child is kept to look like the father..
In Cananda it is not a 90% get circumcised thats for sure.. I would believe its more 50/50 Many parents feel if they teach the child how to clean him self around the skin there should be no worries...
I peronaly think it should be done with in 9 weeks of the childs life.. It would be awful to let my son go through what many men do later in life. And I also find it looks much much better.. I find 4-skin a big turn off.
Jen
Guess who first instigated circumcision. It was Almighty God himself. He ORDERED that the Jews wandering in the wilderness for forty years circumcise all the boys at 8 days old. Here is a better explanation.
CIRCUMCISION
The removal of the prepuce, or foreskin, from the male penis. The Hebrew verb mul (circumcise) is used in a literal and a figurative sense. The Greek noun pe�ri�to�me� (circumcision) literally means �a cutting around.� (Joh 7:22) �Uncircumcision� is rendered from the Greek term a�kro�by�sti�a, which was used in the Greek Septuagint to translate the Hebrew word for �foreskin.��Ro 2:25; Ge 17:11, LXX.
Jehovah God made circumcision mandatory for Abraham in 1919 B.C.E., a year before Isaac�s birth. God said: �This is my covenant that you men will keep . . . Every male of yours must get circumcised.� Every male in Abraham�s household of both his descendants and dependents was included, and so Abraham, his 13-year-old son Ishmael, and all his slaves took upon themselves this �sign of the covenant.� New slaves brought in also had to be circumcised. From then on, any male of the household, slave or free, was to be circumcised the eighth day after birth. Disregard for this divine requirement was punishable by death.�Ge 17:1, 9-14, 23-27.
contd. "Circumcision was practiced in Egypt, as is illustrated in wall paintings and observed in mummies, but it is uncertain when it was first introduced in that country and to what extent it was performed. Some say that Joseph as food administrator introduced it to Egypt. Others cite Herodotus as authority for their claim that Abraham simply borrowed the custom from the Egyptians. Answering these latter claims, W. M. Thomson says: �As to the testimony of Herodotus, who came into Egypt fifteen centuries after, and, with great learning and research, often writes a good deal of nonsense, I refuse utterly to put it in the same category with that of Moses. The great founder of the Jewish commonwealth�the greatest lawgiver on record�born and bred in Egypt, states the facts in relation to the introduction of circumcision among his people. A mere traveller and historian�a foreigner and a Greek�comes along very much later, and makes statements which are partly true, partly erroneous, as Josephus shows in his answer to Apion; and then sceptical authors, more than twenty centuries later than Herodotus, bring up his imperfect statements, and, twisting and expanding them, attempt to prove that Abraham did not receive circumcision from God (as Moses plainly says he did), but from the Egyptians! Not with such weapons can the veracity of Moses be successfully assailed.��The Land and the Book, revised by J. Grande, 1910, p. 593.
contd. "Not only did the Egyptians practice circumcision but the Moabites, the Ammonites, and the Edomites also did. (Jer 9:25, 26) Later, the Samaritans that adhered to the requirements set out in the Pentateuch were also circumcised. On the other hand, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Greeks, and notably the Philistines did not practice circumcision. The latter in particular, rather than the Canaanites in general, are derogatorily spoken of as �the uncircumcised,� and it was from fighting with them that trophies of foreskins were brought.�Jg 14:3; 15:18; 1Sa 14:6; 17:26; 18:25-27; 2Sa 1:20; 1Ch 10:4.
Abraham�s descendants through Isaac and Jacob faithfully kept the covenant of circumcision. �Abraham proceeded to circumcise Isaac his son when eight days old, just as God had commanded him.� (Ge 21:4; Ac 7:8; Ro 4:9-12) The great-grandsons of Abraham told Shechem and his fellow townsmen: �We cannot possibly . . . give our sister [Dinah] to a man who has a foreskin . . . Only on this condition can we give consent to you, that you become like us, by every male of yours getting circumcised.� (Ge 34:13-24) Apparently because Moses neglected to circumcise his son, he incurred God�s wrath until his wife Zipporah did it for him.�Ex 4:24-26; see ZIPPORAH.
Circumcision Under the Law. Circumcision was made a mandatory requirement of the Mosaic Law. �On the eighth day [after the birth of a male] the flesh of his foreskin will be circumcised.� (Le 12:2, 3) So important was it that, if the eighth day fell on the highly regarded Sabbath, circumcision was to be performed anyway. (Joh 7:22, 23) Examples of parents under this Law who faithfully had their children circumcised on the eighth day include the parents of John the Baptizer, Jesus, and Paul. (Lu 1:59; 2:21; Php 3:4, 5) The Law also required aliens to be circumcised before they were allowed to eat the passover.�Ex 12:43-48.
Abraham�s descendants through Isaac and Jacob faithfully kept the covenant of circumcision. �Abraham proceeded to circumcise Isaac his son when eight days old, just as God had commanded him.� (Ge 21:4; Ac 7:8; Ro 4:9-12) The great-grandsons of Abraham told Shechem and his fellow townsmen: �We cannot possibly . . . give our sister [Dinah] to a man who has a foreskin . . . Only on this condition can we give consent to you, that you become like us, by every male of yours getting circumcised.� (Ge 34:13-24) Apparently because Moses neglected to circumcise his son, he incurred God�s wrath until his wife Zipporah did it for him.�Ex 4:24-26; see ZIPPORAH.
Circumcision Under the Law. Circumcision was made a mandatory requirement of the Mosaic Law. �On the eighth day [after the birth of a male] the flesh of his foreskin will be circumcised.� (Le 12:2, 3) So important was it that, if the eighth day fell on the highly regarded Sabbath, circumcision was to be performed anyway. (Joh 7:22, 23) Examples of parents under this Law who faithfully had their children circumcised on the eighth day include the parents of John the Baptizer, Jesus, and Paul. (Lu 1:59; 2:21; Php 3:4, 5) The Law also required aliens to be circumcised before they were allowed to eat the passover.�Ex 12:43-48.
contd, "Why did the Law specify that circumcision be done on the eighth day?
Jehovah did not explain, nor was it necessary that he do so. His ways are always right; his reasons, the best. (2Sa 22:31) However, in recent years man has learned some of the physical reasons why the eighth day was a good time to circumcise. Normal amounts of the blood-clotting element called vitamin K are not found in the blood until the fifth to the seventh day after birth. Another clotting factor known as prothrombin is present in amounts only about 30 percent of normal on the third day but on the eighth day is higher than at any other time in the child�s life�as much as 110 percent of normal. So, following Jehovah�s instructions would help to avoid the danger of hemorrhage. As Dr. S. I. McMillen observes: �From a consideration of vitamin K and prothrombin determinations the perfect day to perform a circumcision is the eighth day . . . [the] day picked by the Creator of vitamin K.��None of These Diseases, 1986, p. 21.
Circumcision was usually, though not always, performed by the head of the house. In later times an official designated and trained for this operation was used. By the first century it appears to have become the custom to name the boy when he was circumcised.�Lu 1:59, 60; 2:21.
Jehovah did not explain, nor was it necessary that he do so. His ways are always right; his reasons, the best. (2Sa 22:31) However, in recent years man has learned some of the physical reasons why the eighth day was a good time to circumcise. Normal amounts of the blood-clotting element called vitamin K are not found in the blood until the fifth to the seventh day after birth. Another clotting factor known as prothrombin is present in amounts only about 30 percent of normal on the third day but on the eighth day is higher than at any other time in the child�s life�as much as 110 percent of normal. So, following Jehovah�s instructions would help to avoid the danger of hemorrhage. As Dr. S. I. McMillen observes: �From a consideration of vitamin K and prothrombin determinations the perfect day to perform a circumcision is the eighth day . . . [the] day picked by the Creator of vitamin K.��None of These Diseases, 1986, p. 21.
Circumcision was usually, though not always, performed by the head of the house. In later times an official designated and trained for this operation was used. By the first century it appears to have become the custom to name the boy when he was circumcised.�Lu 1:59, 60; 2:21.
contd. "During the 40-year wilderness wandering, circumcision of the baby boys was not performed. So after crossing the Jordan, Joshua had all those males circumcised with flint knives at Gilgal, and Jehovah protected them until they recuperated.�Jos 5:2-9; see REPROACH.
After the Exile. Two centuries after the Jews returned from Babylon, Greek influence began to dominate the Middle East, and many peoples abandoned circumcision. But when Syrian King Antiochus IV (Epiphanes) proscribed circumcision, he found Jewish mothers willing to die rather than deny their sons the �sign of the covenant.� (Ge 17:11) Years later Roman Emperor Hadrian got the same results when forbidding the Jews to circumcise their boys. Some Jewish athletes, however, who desired to participate in Hellenistic games (in which runners wore no clothing) endeavored to become �uncircumcised� by an operation aimed at restoring some semblance of a foreskin in an effort to avoid scorn and ridicule. Paul may have alluded to such a practice when he counseled Christians: �Was any man called circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised.� (1Co 7:18) The Greek verb here rendered �become uncircumcised� (e�pi�spa�o�mai) literally means �draw upon,� evidently referring to drawing the prepuce forward in order to become as if uncircumcised.�Compare Int.
Not Required of Christians. After Jehovah showed his acceptance of Gentiles into the Christian congregation, and since many from the nations were responding to the preaching of the good news, a decision had to be made by the governing body at Jerusalem on the question, Is it necessary for Gentile Christians to get circumcised in the flesh? The conclusion of the matter: The �necessary things� for Gentiles and Jews alike did not include circumcision.�Ac 15:6-29.
After the Exile. Two centuries after the Jews returned from Babylon, Greek influence began to dominate the Middle East, and many peoples abandoned circumcision. But when Syrian King Antiochus IV (Epiphanes) proscribed circumcision, he found Jewish mothers willing to die rather than deny their sons the �sign of the covenant.� (Ge 17:11) Years later Roman Emperor Hadrian got the same results when forbidding the Jews to circumcise their boys. Some Jewish athletes, however, who desired to participate in Hellenistic games (in which runners wore no clothing) endeavored to become �uncircumcised� by an operation aimed at restoring some semblance of a foreskin in an effort to avoid scorn and ridicule. Paul may have alluded to such a practice when he counseled Christians: �Was any man called circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised.� (1Co 7:18) The Greek verb here rendered �become uncircumcised� (e�pi�spa�o�mai) literally means �draw upon,� evidently referring to drawing the prepuce forward in order to become as if uncircumcised.�Compare Int.
Not Required of Christians. After Jehovah showed his acceptance of Gentiles into the Christian congregation, and since many from the nations were responding to the preaching of the good news, a decision had to be made by the governing body at Jerusalem on the question, Is it necessary for Gentile Christians to get circumcised in the flesh? The conclusion of the matter: The �necessary things� for Gentiles and Jews alike did not include circumcision.�Ac 15:6-29.
contd. "Paul circumcised Timothy shortly after the decree was issued, not as a matter of faith, but to avoid prejudicing Jews to whom they were going to preach. (Ac 16:1-3; 1Co 9:20) The apostle dealt with the subject in several letters. (Ro 2:25-29; Ga 2:11-14; 5:2-6; 6:12-15; Col 2:11; 3:11) �We are those with the real circumcision [of the heart], who are rendering sacred service by God�s spirit,� Paul wrote Gentile Christians at Philippi. (Php 3:3) And to those in Corinth he wrote: �Circumcision does not mean a thing, and uncircumcision means not a thing, but observance of God�s commandments does.��1Co 7:19.
Figurative Usage. �Circumcision� is used figuratively in a number of ways. After planting a tree in the Promised Land, for example, it was said to �continue uncircumcised� for three years; its fruit was considered its �foreskin� and was not to be eaten. (Le 19:23) Moses said to Jehovah: �Look! I am uncircumcised in lips, so how will Pharaoh ever listen to me?� (Ex 6:12, 30) In a figurative way �uncircumcised ones� describes with repulsive contempt those worthy only of burial in a common place with slain ones of the lowest sort.�Eze 32:18-32.
Figurative Usage. �Circumcision� is used figuratively in a number of ways. After planting a tree in the Promised Land, for example, it was said to �continue uncircumcised� for three years; its fruit was considered its �foreskin� and was not to be eaten. (Le 19:23) Moses said to Jehovah: �Look! I am uncircumcised in lips, so how will Pharaoh ever listen to me?� (Ex 6:12, 30) In a figurative way �uncircumcised ones� describes with repulsive contempt those worthy only of burial in a common place with slain ones of the lowest sort.�Eze 32:18-32.
contd. 'Circumcision of the heart was a divine requirement of even the Israelites who were already circumcised in the flesh. Moses told Israel: �You must circumcise the foreskin of your hearts and not harden your necks any longer.� �Jehovah your God will have to circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, that you may love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul for the sake of your life.� (De 10:16; 30:6) Jeremiah reminded that wayward nation in his day of the same thing. (Jer 4:4) �Circumcision of the heart� means getting rid of anything in one�s thinking, affections, or motives that is displeasing and unclean in Jehovah�s eyes and that makes the heart unresponsive. Similarly, ears that are not sensitive or responsive are spoken of as �uncircumcised.��Jer 6:10; Ac 7:51.
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