Listener 4841 Offhand Remark By Remus
Crosswords1 min ago
Pig organs for Human use.
25 Answers
Just wondering, certain religions ban the eating of certain foods, however, in Judaism, you can get a dispensation on health grounds, and i'm pretty sure, in a matter of life or death, there would be a dispensation for organs from pigs, (I don't know for sure, but i'd take a bet on it). My question is, could there be a dispensation in Islam, if there was no other way of saving a persons life?.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scien ce/article5102153.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scien ce/article5102153.ece
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It would help, Lonnie, if you defined which Jew could "get a dispensation...." I suppose it would be possible for a Reformed Jew and a non-Conservative Jew, but and Orthodox Jew would never consider it possible. Actually, there were, unitl the last few decades, good health reasons for not consuming pork. It's only with the advent of corporate pig farms where the feed, water and living conditions of the animal are so controlled that the health is pratically guaranteed. In undeveloped countries I wouldn't even consider it.
As to your question... as I'm sure you're aware. the restriction found in Leviticus 11,7-8 prohibits not only eating but even touching the unclean animal.
The frum (committed to be observant) Jew would choose death before allowing pig organs to be transplanted into themselves. Even more so my good friends who are Hasidim... However, it's also been my observation that Jews are pretty fair at not dictating what others may do...
As to your question... as I'm sure you're aware. the restriction found in Leviticus 11,7-8 prohibits not only eating but even touching the unclean animal.
The frum (committed to be observant) Jew would choose death before allowing pig organs to be transplanted into themselves. Even more so my good friends who are Hasidim... However, it's also been my observation that Jews are pretty fair at not dictating what others may do...
If you are in a situation where you are sure that you would die of starvation and there is no other alternative as far as you can make a sincere effort then in Islam even the consumption of pork is allowed.
As for the organ implant again my personal feeing is that there should not be any problem if that is the only way your life can be saved. Because if we look at Islamic stance on other things like alcohol, abortion, human organ donation and implant then you can clearly see that Islam allows these for health and medicinal purposes as life is more important because usually its not only you who need your health and well being but the others around you as well.
As for the organ implant again my personal feeing is that there should not be any problem if that is the only way your life can be saved. Because if we look at Islamic stance on other things like alcohol, abortion, human organ donation and implant then you can clearly see that Islam allows these for health and medicinal purposes as life is more important because usually its not only you who need your health and well being but the others around you as well.
On a recent BBC4 program on surgery a pioneer surgeon described a case of a guy who was on the operating table and "was clearly not going to get off it".
There had been work on potential pigs hearts transfer and they got the pig brought to the hospital.
The surgeon checked the patients name tag - Cohen!
Panic! - he called a rabbi friend - the rabbi assured the doctor that in a matter of life and death it would be sactioned from a religous perspective.
However - sadly, the guy died before the operation could happen.
I'm not saying the story speaks for all Jews and it reeks of ethical issues but it's the story that was related.
I rather suspect that in actuality a lot would depend on the individual beliefs of the Jew or Moslem.
Come to that a lot of Christian groups would have a fit
There had been work on potential pigs hearts transfer and they got the pig brought to the hospital.
The surgeon checked the patients name tag - Cohen!
Panic! - he called a rabbi friend - the rabbi assured the doctor that in a matter of life and death it would be sactioned from a religous perspective.
However - sadly, the guy died before the operation could happen.
I'm not saying the story speaks for all Jews and it reeks of ethical issues but it's the story that was related.
I rather suspect that in actuality a lot would depend on the individual beliefs of the Jew or Moslem.
Come to that a lot of Christian groups would have a fit
Thanks for your usual well informed reply Clanad, since posting this, i've been doing some checking, and it would be allowed, with special religious permission. This goes for both Jews and Muslims, regardless of which branch they hold, but I guess also, it would depend on how themselves feel about it, a bit like Jehovas Witnessess and Blood.
Obviously, organ transplants are a different issue to the eating of them,
Many thanks for your replies keyplus and jake, both are much valued
Obviously, organ transplants are a different issue to the eating of them,
Many thanks for your replies keyplus and jake, both are much valued
I am puzzled as to the story in the Bible where Jesus allowed the demons, "Legion," to go into a herd of pigs, which threw themselves off the cliff and into the water, and drowned.
Presumably, i thought, these were domesticated animals.
If so, why, if pigs were, "unclean?"
Also, I am interested as to why, as Clanad says, they were a serious health hazard?
Presumably, i thought, these were domesticated animals.
If so, why, if pigs were, "unclean?"
Also, I am interested as to why, as Clanad says, they were a serious health hazard?
Hi Theland,
Hope things are a bit better at the moment,
Pigs,
I think they are extremely clean animals, ok, they are omnivorous, but so are we, and the fithy conditions thay are kept in, is the result of Human behaviour.
In the end, the laws that govern Jewish and Muslim eating habits, really need to be updated, because it wasn't God that gave the Koshah laws, it was man. All God said, was 'Thou Shalt Not Seethe The Kid In its Mothers Milk', nothing else, and as for Pig meat, most meat, eaten uncooked probably isn't any good for Human digestion.
everton,
I'm afraid I can't agree, eg, if you were dying, and the only hope was an organ from an animal, would you refuse?.
Hope things are a bit better at the moment,
Pigs,
I think they are extremely clean animals, ok, they are omnivorous, but so are we, and the fithy conditions thay are kept in, is the result of Human behaviour.
In the end, the laws that govern Jewish and Muslim eating habits, really need to be updated, because it wasn't God that gave the Koshah laws, it was man. All God said, was 'Thou Shalt Not Seethe The Kid In its Mothers Milk', nothing else, and as for Pig meat, most meat, eaten uncooked probably isn't any good for Human digestion.
everton,
I'm afraid I can't agree, eg, if you were dying, and the only hope was an organ from an animal, would you refuse?.
Throughout the land of Israel, Theland, a large number of Gentiles lived, who obviously were the pig's owners. Not unlike the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) who went into a far country, and after losing his birthright, became a swineherd and even ate with the pigs. Here again, the pigs were the property of Gentiles.
By the way, that's one of the reasons some of the people were so outraged when Yeshua condemned the Spirits into the pigs and they destroyed themselves, since they were valuable property of some non-Jews.
When I was a child and used to visit my Granfather, he kept a small herd of pigs. They were mainly fed slop... a bucket was kept in the kitchen to recieve anything and everything Grandmother discarded from cooking. Much of this became fermented (since there was no regrigeration) and one of my chores was to take it to the pig pen and feed it to the pigs. It was full of maggots which, I think, the pigs really liked... protein and all that. Trichinosis, caused by round worms is still regualary transmitted to humans in cultures that don't keep thier pigs in clean conditions. Here in the U.S. it's estimated 70% of all pigs sent to market may have contracted pneumonia and are, therefore heavily laden with antibiotics and growth promoting hormones.... But, hey! Have right at it. (In the interest of full disclosrue, as they say, we do raise beef cattle here in the western U.S., so obviously there's an opportunity for bias).
By the way, that's one of the reasons some of the people were so outraged when Yeshua condemned the Spirits into the pigs and they destroyed themselves, since they were valuable property of some non-Jews.
When I was a child and used to visit my Granfather, he kept a small herd of pigs. They were mainly fed slop... a bucket was kept in the kitchen to recieve anything and everything Grandmother discarded from cooking. Much of this became fermented (since there was no regrigeration) and one of my chores was to take it to the pig pen and feed it to the pigs. It was full of maggots which, I think, the pigs really liked... protein and all that. Trichinosis, caused by round worms is still regualary transmitted to humans in cultures that don't keep thier pigs in clean conditions. Here in the U.S. it's estimated 70% of all pigs sent to market may have contracted pneumonia and are, therefore heavily laden with antibiotics and growth promoting hormones.... But, hey! Have right at it. (In the interest of full disclosrue, as they say, we do raise beef cattle here in the western U.S., so obviously there's an opportunity for bias).
Quite interesting question Lonnie, which you should sak of Muslims. They basically have 3 choices:
1) to accept pig genetically modified organs for transplantation.
2) Wait for somebody to die in a road traffic accident and "harvest" his or her organs.
3) To die.
Thats it in a nutshell,the choice lies with the patient.
1) to accept pig genetically modified organs for transplantation.
2) Wait for somebody to die in a road traffic accident and "harvest" his or her organs.
3) To die.
Thats it in a nutshell,the choice lies with the patient.
I know a guy who lost both ears in a tragic accident. As there were no human ears ready for transplant, he was given on ear from a pig and the other from a dog.
At his appointment with the consultant he was asked on the condition of his hearing.
"The dogs ear is fine, & I can hear the faintest of sounds."
"What about the other" asks the consultant.
"Just a bit of crackling" :-)
Sorry, couldn't resist it!!!!
At his appointment with the consultant he was asked on the condition of his hearing.
"The dogs ear is fine, & I can hear the faintest of sounds."
"What about the other" asks the consultant.
"Just a bit of crackling" :-)
Sorry, couldn't resist it!!!!
I found this, about nwhy Pig meat is supposed to unhealthy,
'Pigs are scavengers. They are notorious for eating anything, including their own waste and garbage. A pig will eat sick and infected animals, including its own piglets that die from disease. Pigs also have one the quickest, yet poorest digestive systems of any animal. On average a pig can completely digest its food in four hours. Since it processes everything so fast, many times the toxins aren�t removed and they are stored in the pig�s fat. Many pigs are traumatized physically before being slaughtered. Under these conditions, which are generally the case in large factory operations, pigs will release toxins and hormones into their muscles that affect the quality of their meat.
Pigs are also notorious for being infected with parasites and tapeworms because they roll around in poop most of their lives. Anyone that knows anything about cooking pork knows that it is important to cook it long enough and warm enough to make sure all the parasites and tapeworms have been killed off. If not, you could become infected'.
'Pigs are scavengers. They are notorious for eating anything, including their own waste and garbage. A pig will eat sick and infected animals, including its own piglets that die from disease. Pigs also have one the quickest, yet poorest digestive systems of any animal. On average a pig can completely digest its food in four hours. Since it processes everything so fast, many times the toxins aren�t removed and they are stored in the pig�s fat. Many pigs are traumatized physically before being slaughtered. Under these conditions, which are generally the case in large factory operations, pigs will release toxins and hormones into their muscles that affect the quality of their meat.
Pigs are also notorious for being infected with parasites and tapeworms because they roll around in poop most of their lives. Anyone that knows anything about cooking pork knows that it is important to cook it long enough and warm enough to make sure all the parasites and tapeworms have been killed off. If not, you could become infected'.
As you say Lonnie, organ transplant would be a totally different thing to the food issue. The pigs used for transplants would surely be exceptionally clean animals, having been specially bred, kept in the very best conditions, and fed wholesome food.
I should imagine that if it's a choice between life and death, many people who are devout to their religion in health, would willingly accept a transplant.
I should imagine that if it's a choice between life and death, many people who are devout to their religion in health, would willingly accept a transplant.
Carrust - I know a guy too who had an accident and lost his pen1s. Doctors came up with an idea and used the end bit of a baby elephant's trunk who died in next door veterinary hospital.
Few years on and doctor saw that man again and asked him how the things were?
Well, he said, "Its been very helpful and I got married have kids so it is working fine but there is only one problem"
and what's that? Surgeon asked.
He said " As I am from a remote village and we do not have toilets, so we go into open air (fields) and whenever I crouch or sit down with my trouser off, my pen1s starts grabbing grass and other shrubs and pushing it up my .......................
Yes so animal organ implantation, things can go wrong.......
Few years on and doctor saw that man again and asked him how the things were?
Well, he said, "Its been very helpful and I got married have kids so it is working fine but there is only one problem"
and what's that? Surgeon asked.
He said " As I am from a remote village and we do not have toilets, so we go into open air (fields) and whenever I crouch or sit down with my trouser off, my pen1s starts grabbing grass and other shrubs and pushing it up my .......................
Yes so animal organ implantation, things can go wrong.......
And now the serius bit - When we talk aout transplant like this then we expect doctors to be sure about the safety and viability to a certain degree. But as far as people are saying that pigs now a days are clean then I do not agree with that. This animal's nature is filthy and does not matter how much you do they are never clean. Otherwise just go to any local urban farms with your kids and close your eyes. You would know when you are near pigs area as long as you do not have blocked sinuses.
A bit more information to add to what Lonnie said,
Eating of pork can cause no less than seventy different types of diseases. A person can have various helminthes like roundworm, pinworm, hookworm, etc. One of the most dangerous is Taenia Solium, which is in lay man�s terminology called tapeworm. It harbours in the intestine and is very long. Its ova i.e. eggs, enter the blood stream and can reach almost all the organs of the body. If it enters the brain it can cause memory loss. If it enters the heart it can cause heart attack, if it enters the eye it can cause blindness, if it enters the liver it can cause liver damage. It can damage almost all the organs of the body.
Another dangerous helminthes is Trichura Tichurasis. A common misconception about pork is that if it is cooked well, these ova die. In a research project undertaken in America, it was found that out of twenty-four people suffering from Trichura Tichurasis, twenty two had cooked the pork very well. This indicates that the ova present in the pork do not die under normal cooking temperature.
Pork has very little muscle building material and contains excess of fat. This fat gets deposited in the vessels and can cause hypertension and heart attack. It is not surprising that over 50% of Americans suffer from hypertension.
As I said before, Pigs are extremely clean animals, have a read of this, and really, all meat should be cooked properly.
- Pigs are very clean animals. In fact, pigs are some of the cleanest animals around. They like to maintain separate eating sleeping and defecation areas. When given the room and freedom to decide, pigs choose to be clean and tidy.
Pigs enjoy private time with their newborn babies. Before giving birth, a pregnant sow will remove herself from the herd and build a nest out of leaves, branches, grass, or straw to give birth on. She will care for the piglets for several days, before leading her new babies to meet the rest of the herd.
Pigs are extremely intelligent. They are thought to be the smartest of all domestic animals. Pigs have an I.Q higher than dogs and are considered by animal experts to be more trainable than dogs or cats.
Pigs cannot sweat. They do not have sweat glands. During hot weather they will roll around in the mud or water. Then when the wind blows over them, the water from the mud evaporates, and cools them. The dried mud acts as a layer of sunscreen. Their mucky appearance has given them the undeserved reputation of being grubby animals. Sweating like a pig, really means not sweating at all.
Pigs have an excellent sense of smell. That is why they have been used to search out truffles (rare fungus that grows underground) and drugs, and they have even been used to detect land mines.
Pigs love to play and exercise. They love running, digging, splashing in puddles, and playing with other pigs.
- Pigs are very clean animals. In fact, pigs are some of the cleanest animals around. They like to maintain separate eating sleeping and defecation areas. When given the room and freedom to decide, pigs choose to be clean and tidy.
Pigs enjoy private time with their newborn babies. Before giving birth, a pregnant sow will remove herself from the herd and build a nest out of leaves, branches, grass, or straw to give birth on. She will care for the piglets for several days, before leading her new babies to meet the rest of the herd.
Pigs are extremely intelligent. They are thought to be the smartest of all domestic animals. Pigs have an I.Q higher than dogs and are considered by animal experts to be more trainable than dogs or cats.
Pigs cannot sweat. They do not have sweat glands. During hot weather they will roll around in the mud or water. Then when the wind blows over them, the water from the mud evaporates, and cools them. The dried mud acts as a layer of sunscreen. Their mucky appearance has given them the undeserved reputation of being grubby animals. Sweating like a pig, really means not sweating at all.
Pigs have an excellent sense of smell. That is why they have been used to search out truffles (rare fungus that grows underground) and drugs, and they have even been used to detect land mines.
Pigs love to play and exercise. They love running, digging, splashing in puddles, and playing with other pigs.
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