ChatterBank47 mins ago
Is God omnipotent
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Could God create a rock that was too heavy for Him to lift??
Not sure that it's a science question.... but anyway interesting to think about
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"tis intresting. My thoughts: "God" is the definition of omnipotence: he is literally everywhere at everytime (my ideology at least). Speaking as a person with no real attachment to any religion, God IS the rock. He is what makes up every thing that we know to exist.
And the smallest substrate of matter that science has been able to reduce things down to, is energy. The same principles that Einstein and his counterparts detailed. God is energy, God is what makes up everything we know of. The one passage from the Bible I will use here is the one that says "God created us in his image." Well if every particle/cell/electron/etc. is also made up of energy (proven by science), that means that humans are than just a huge conglomerate of energy. Indeed, God did create humans in his image, because he created us from, or in, his image: he created us from himself - energy.
So to answer your question, "no, God could not create a rock heavy enough for him to lift." Why? because there will always be a force able to move anything. If there were a mega-ton rock put on Earth, one day when the galaciers recede from the poles, they will crush and shift anything in its way (it's happened before with the land masses). As well, Earth's tetonic plates are continously moving land masses. Those land masses are pretty big rocks, and they get moved/lifted/shifted/pushed down all the time.
The only other scenario I can think of is a rock in the cosmos that is so big, it could one day become a planet. Well, the force that moves them is the gravitational pull of stars. And then the stars themselves are caught in whatever attraction power comes from the eye of a galaxy, as well as the reciprocal gravitational force between stars. Each of these forces, to me, IS God. They're all somehow related to energy.
And the smallest substrate of matter that science has been able to reduce things down to, is energy. The same principles that Einstein and his counterparts detailed. God is energy, God is what makes up everything we know of. The one passage from the Bible I will use here is the one that says "God created us in his image." Well if every particle/cell/electron/etc. is also made up of energy (proven by science), that means that humans are than just a huge conglomerate of energy. Indeed, God did create humans in his image, because he created us from, or in, his image: he created us from himself - energy.
So to answer your question, "no, God could not create a rock heavy enough for him to lift." Why? because there will always be a force able to move anything. If there were a mega-ton rock put on Earth, one day when the galaciers recede from the poles, they will crush and shift anything in its way (it's happened before with the land masses). As well, Earth's tetonic plates are continously moving land masses. Those land masses are pretty big rocks, and they get moved/lifted/shifted/pushed down all the time.
The only other scenario I can think of is a rock in the cosmos that is so big, it could one day become a planet. Well, the force that moves them is the gravitational pull of stars. And then the stars themselves are caught in whatever attraction power comes from the eye of a galaxy, as well as the reciprocal gravitational force between stars. Each of these forces, to me, IS God. They're all somehow related to energy.
One more thing :) Throughout history, people have defined God as to what they do not understand. God, indeed, is what humans cannot understand. We do not understand what Energy is. We know it consists of "pockets" at times, "waves" at others, and that it makes up every single particle known to man, but we don't know what its made of. It's gotta be made of God.
Is this a science question? I would suggest "History & Myths" but that might be seen as antagonistic. Ooops!
I thought we knew pretty well what energy was, kinetic, potential, sound, electrical etc... Also, I think chaotic1 is confusing the particle/wave duality of light photons with energy in the broader sense. This appears to be rather unscientific. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I was speaking from a micro-level perspective. Maybe the science is a bit dodgy, but the fact of the matter is that "WE DO NOT COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND WHAT ENERGY IS." We know the forms it takes eg. kinetic, magnetic, cellular processes (ATP), but we don't know what a pocket of energy is made up of.
Science can disect any particle down to the level of energy. They can disect a cell down to the cellular organelles, DNA, protein, various messengers, etc. But then to ask the question what these things are made of, how do you answer that? Any insight?
Also, take the table your sitting at right now. Science can reduce it down to a heavily condensed set of fibers, particles, and whatever. But again, to ask the question what the electrons, and whatever else make up the particles and fibers, are made of...again no answer. Well actually, electrons were found to consist of positrons, quarks, gluons, etc. but these are just theoretical, invisible, massless particles. What are these things made of? In turn, this is where they say energy comes into play, and fills that role.
How could Science say a hard wooden table essentially is constructed from a set of highly condensed invisible, massless particles? Does it involve metaphysical explanations? What is God? cause he isn't some guy sitting in the cosmos somewhere watching over us. We won't "meet him" someday. We will become Him.
Science can disect any particle down to the level of energy. They can disect a cell down to the cellular organelles, DNA, protein, various messengers, etc. But then to ask the question what these things are made of, how do you answer that? Any insight?
Also, take the table your sitting at right now. Science can reduce it down to a heavily condensed set of fibers, particles, and whatever. But again, to ask the question what the electrons, and whatever else make up the particles and fibers, are made of...again no answer. Well actually, electrons were found to consist of positrons, quarks, gluons, etc. but these are just theoretical, invisible, massless particles. What are these things made of? In turn, this is where they say energy comes into play, and fills that role.
How could Science say a hard wooden table essentially is constructed from a set of highly condensed invisible, massless particles? Does it involve metaphysical explanations? What is God? cause he isn't some guy sitting in the cosmos somewhere watching over us. We won't "meet him" someday. We will become Him.
I still don't see how being a reductionist, and bringing everything down to the level of energy, and whether we can explain it or not, has anything to do with god (my lower case 'g').
I don't understand why my wife leaves all the lights on in the house - even in the rooms she's not sitting in (she's not omnipresent, you see). But I don't automatically think 'I don't understand, therefore = god'.
So why for something that, collectively, humans don't understand or can not explain, should we necessarily think 'there you go mate, that's that there god, that is, me ol' china' ?
I just don't see how they are at all linked.
Blimey, sounds some ABers on this thread have been smoking some whacky baccy. If you really need to answer this question here is some light reading for you....
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/godhead/omni_eom.htm
Rather than a god being an "explanation" of the unknown I would rather say that it is a given label for some'thing' that somebody worships or shows religious devotion to, as of a deity. There is perhaps only one god, he just has different names to different people, although ancient believed in many gods at once. Maybe we should all start worshipping the sun and moon and stars. What's rocks got to do with it?
FIrst, I'm not defining any sort of a "God of the gaps: God is what we do not understand; he "fills" the gaps of knowledge that we are ignorant of." In a way though, I guess I am taking a reductionist view: the whole is a sum of its parts. Reductionists are also sometimes labeled as "nothing butters: we are nothing but a collection of elementatry particles." This, I do not believe.
Science, and religion I hope too, is grounded in "realism." The belief that what we know, or what we can't know, show us what things are really like. Quantum physics is obsessed with breaking things down to see what they're made of. They also point to an "interconnectedness" that all particles share with similar like particles. Let the following example illustrate it.
Science, and religion I hope too, is grounded in "realism." The belief that what we know, or what we can't know, show us what things are really like. Quantum physics is obsessed with breaking things down to see what they're made of. They also point to an "interconnectedness" that all particles share with similar like particles. Let the following example illustrate it.
The subatomic level: if we look for an electron somewhere, we cannot precisely say where it will be. Because of its random behaviour, we only involve statistics and probabilities and "predict" where it will occur (be located) when we look for it in most of the instances. Such radical randomness is what makes the quantum world unpredicatble and unmechanical.
But add another eletron to the event, and no matter how far apart they are (even if one is on Earth and the other is "beyond the moon" as scientists joke) they will effect each other's movement. Whatever is done to one electron will have an immediate effect on its distant brother. Once two electrons interact with each other, they possess a power to influence each other.
This influence can be revealed in H2-0 partlicles. A few water molecules by themselves are not "wet," but if you have a collection of billions of the molecules, they interact in such a way as to produce an energy at the surface of the collection that physicists call surface tension and experience as wetness.
It is this collective effect of all water molecules together that produce the sensation. All water molecules have energetic properties, the way they share it can be expected to change when brought together. The same elementary principle can be applied to all other particles interacting and influencing each other. This is the interconnectedness of the universe.
But add another eletron to the event, and no matter how far apart they are (even if one is on Earth and the other is "beyond the moon" as scientists joke) they will effect each other's movement. Whatever is done to one electron will have an immediate effect on its distant brother. Once two electrons interact with each other, they possess a power to influence each other.
This influence can be revealed in H2-0 partlicles. A few water molecules by themselves are not "wet," but if you have a collection of billions of the molecules, they interact in such a way as to produce an energy at the surface of the collection that physicists call surface tension and experience as wetness.
It is this collective effect of all water molecules together that produce the sensation. All water molecules have energetic properties, the way they share it can be expected to change when brought together. The same elementary principle can be applied to all other particles interacting and influencing each other. This is the interconnectedness of the universe.
The answer to the question is 'No', because that God does not exist at all, not here, not there, not anywhere inside or outside of anything.
chaotic1's notion of God being whatever we don't understand is simply untenable: chaotic1; would you say tht this God that you perceive is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient and immutable? If not, then what?
TGi is the creator and ruler of everything in the cosmos from the infinitessimally small subatomic particle (and anything smaller that has existence, and every particle, wave or packet or any form of energy) up to the entity with the greatest mass, weight, energy, whatever and the entire cosmos itself.
The question is meaningless and the God of the bible cannot be explained because he does not exist.
Half right you are Merlin! God is nothing. Philosophical rhetoric has studied the "being" and "nonbeing," and the "meaningful" and "nothingness" and etc.etc. "The courage to Be, written by Paul Tillich, one of the leading theologists of the 20th century, is a great book (intensive reading though).
Philosophy defines that for something to be everything, it also needs to be nothing. To me, life is nothing because it means everything.
I'm not defining God to be "what we do not understand." Repeat: I'm not defining God to be what we do not understand. I'm defining God to be what the Universe started from (a sphere of energy - size: human pupil). From there, the universe grew into what it is today...from a ball of energy. That's God. He is everything at all places. He is what we do not understand, we is what we do understand, he is what we do not have any idea even exists "out there."
Everything that everthing is composed of began from that condensed ball of energy that exploded and began to expand some 10-20 billion years ago. That energy, TO ME, was God and is God. He is everything, but at the same time is nothing, because nothing else exists - nothing else matters except for energy.
Philosophy defines that for something to be everything, it also needs to be nothing. To me, life is nothing because it means everything.
I'm not defining God to be "what we do not understand." Repeat: I'm not defining God to be what we do not understand. I'm defining God to be what the Universe started from (a sphere of energy - size: human pupil). From there, the universe grew into what it is today...from a ball of energy. That's God. He is everything at all places. He is what we do not understand, we is what we do understand, he is what we do not have any idea even exists "out there."
Everything that everthing is composed of began from that condensed ball of energy that exploded and began to expand some 10-20 billion years ago. That energy, TO ME, was God and is God. He is everything, but at the same time is nothing, because nothing else exists - nothing else matters except for energy.
I derive my beliefs from my ideology (and whatever factors influence them...). This would seem to indicate unreliability of my beliefs, since it's only what I think. Maybe so, but my life history has led me believe that nothing you do has any real meaning. Humans attach their own meaning to things.
However, that's not to say that what you do in life has no consequences in life. It's like the closer you come to some form of spirtuality, the closer you align yourself with the true meaning of life. I imagine this "meaning" to be like a pipeline of energy streaming throughout the cosmos. My imagination leads me to feel that each and every human also has some sort of their own pipeline of energy, independent of the one true One. How a person can get closer to the One can come in many ways I suppose; helping others, doing good things, having good intentions, simply talking to the god you believe in (everyone, by the way, does believe in a "higher being," physiology has shown us that humans are "predestined" or "hard-wired" to think of some kind of higher being).
Everything in life basically comes down to chance, or odds. The statistical 95% confindence interval (for those who are familliar with it) is involved (I won't get into that, though). But many life-changing events come down to probabilities, "being in the right place at the right time" (I AM NOT saying we have no control over life, just very limited and only in certain realms). I for one, have had my life literally saved due to chance. It involved a car accident I was in. The car flipped over, I was thrown out of it, I was unconcious and got trapped underneath it, and a 30 year-old male happended to drive by the scene (I would bet anything that there can be hardly more than a dozen cars that travel on that particular road every day). But what do you know, there came a car at just the right time. Chances favored me that day.
However, that's not to say that what you do in life has no consequences in life. It's like the closer you come to some form of spirtuality, the closer you align yourself with the true meaning of life. I imagine this "meaning" to be like a pipeline of energy streaming throughout the cosmos. My imagination leads me to feel that each and every human also has some sort of their own pipeline of energy, independent of the one true One. How a person can get closer to the One can come in many ways I suppose; helping others, doing good things, having good intentions, simply talking to the god you believe in (everyone, by the way, does believe in a "higher being," physiology has shown us that humans are "predestined" or "hard-wired" to think of some kind of higher being).
Everything in life basically comes down to chance, or odds. The statistical 95% confindence interval (for those who are familliar with it) is involved (I won't get into that, though). But many life-changing events come down to probabilities, "being in the right place at the right time" (I AM NOT saying we have no control over life, just very limited and only in certain realms). I for one, have had my life literally saved due to chance. It involved a car accident I was in. The car flipped over, I was thrown out of it, I was unconcious and got trapped underneath it, and a 30 year-old male happended to drive by the scene (I would bet anything that there can be hardly more than a dozen cars that travel on that particular road every day). But what do you know, there came a car at just the right time. Chances favored me that day.
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