ChatterBank1 min ago
Ex husband has weeks left to live....
13 Answers
and my name is still on the mortgage of the property we lived in when married. He had an affair but would not leave so we did and ended up in rented accommodation and have bee here for 5 years. He was supposed to do the property up - new kitchen etc. - then sell it but became ill and has never done this. There is a 2nd mortgage on the house which I do believe I have any knowledge of signing for. I have received a court letter stating that a finance company are taking us both to court . My ex husband actually severed the joint tenancy a few months ago. It is an absolutely awful thing that is happening to my ex husband - he is the father of our 12 year old - but I am really scared about what is happening with regards to the house and the implications it has on me and my son after his death. Can anyone offer any advice?
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2 part post
This must be very distressing for you. I hope the following is some help. Please post again if you have any queries on it.
1. You say the joint tenancy was severed. Does this mean the house is in your ex's sole name, or is it now a tenancy in common, with your name still on the title deeds? If it is in his sole name, then I am surprised the mortgage lender agreed to your name coming off the title - they don't usually agree this.
2. The second mortgage - you say "I do believe I have any knowledge of signing for". This wording seems to indicate you may have omitted the word "not" - i.e. you don't remember signing for it. Is that the case? If so, & if this second mortgage was entered into when you were still a joint owner, then something has happened which should not have happened. Mortgages for a jointly owned property should only be entered into if both owners signed. You may need to ask the lender to see the application form to satisfy yourself whether you did sign.
3. One of the lenders is taking you to Court - presumably because of arrears. I assume they are asking for Court approval to repossess the house. If it is the second mortgage lender then you certainly need to clarify the position as in 2 above. Whichever lender it is, you � or your ex or someone acting for him � will need to ask the Court to delay any possession because of his illness (unless he is now in hospital & will not return home).
Second part
4. I assume you are not in a position to pay off the arrears & to make the payments on both mortgages after your husband dies, so what will happen is that the house will be repossessed by the lender & sold. The proceeds will be used to pay the first mortgage & then � if there is sufficient money � the second mortgage, & all the lender�s costs. Anything left over will be distributed in accordance with your ex�s will or � if you are still a part owner as a tenant in common � some of it would come to you. There may be a shortfall, in which case the lenders could chase you for the outstanding balance. However, as regards the second mortgage if you definitely did not sign it, then you are probably not personally liable in relation to it.
5. As you can see, this can become very complex. I suggest you need some help from a debt adviser, such as at your local CAB. Or, if you can afford it, a solicitor could help with some aspects.
4. I assume you are not in a position to pay off the arrears & to make the payments on both mortgages after your husband dies, so what will happen is that the house will be repossessed by the lender & sold. The proceeds will be used to pay the first mortgage & then � if there is sufficient money � the second mortgage, & all the lender�s costs. Anything left over will be distributed in accordance with your ex�s will or � if you are still a part owner as a tenant in common � some of it would come to you. There may be a shortfall, in which case the lenders could chase you for the outstanding balance. However, as regards the second mortgage if you definitely did not sign it, then you are probably not personally liable in relation to it.
5. As you can see, this can become very complex. I suggest you need some help from a debt adviser, such as at your local CAB. Or, if you can afford it, a solicitor could help with some aspects.
Themas - thanks for your response. It is now a tenancy in common with my name still on the deeds. My ex was not and is not now obviously in a position to take on the mortgage in his own right.
I cannot recall signing for a 2nd mortgage on the property but as my ex now has weeks to live I am not going to add to his distress by getting the police involved in this matter. I will contact the people who gave the 2nd mortgage to check if my signature is on the paperwork. It is this company - Welcome - who have issued the "Interim Charging Order" against my ex husband and have also sent it to me.
I am not in a position to pay off any arrears. My ex is not in hospital - he is at home being looked after in the last few weeks of his life.
I have been to the CAB prior to receiving this interim charging order and the were not much help. I did this after I obtained a copy of the credit report as my partner and I are wanting to get a mortgage and this is when I found out about the 2nd mortgage as it appears on my credit report. I went to see a solicitor after the CAB and he said that without more information from my ex husband about the state of affairs with the house he could not help. I do not have a lot of money so going to see a solicitor is not really an option I can afford.
I have sent a text to my ex husband yesterday - we do not communicate with each other very much) telling him I have received these papers from the court but have not had a response from him. He has, understandably, a lot on his plate with what is happening to him but I am concerned for myself and my son and what sort of problems and debts I am going to be facing upon my ex's death.
I cannot recall signing for a 2nd mortgage on the property but as my ex now has weeks to live I am not going to add to his distress by getting the police involved in this matter. I will contact the people who gave the 2nd mortgage to check if my signature is on the paperwork. It is this company - Welcome - who have issued the "Interim Charging Order" against my ex husband and have also sent it to me.
I am not in a position to pay off any arrears. My ex is not in hospital - he is at home being looked after in the last few weeks of his life.
I have been to the CAB prior to receiving this interim charging order and the were not much help. I did this after I obtained a copy of the credit report as my partner and I are wanting to get a mortgage and this is when I found out about the 2nd mortgage as it appears on my credit report. I went to see a solicitor after the CAB and he said that without more information from my ex husband about the state of affairs with the house he could not help. I do not have a lot of money so going to see a solicitor is not really an option I can afford.
I have sent a text to my ex husband yesterday - we do not communicate with each other very much) telling him I have received these papers from the court but have not had a response from him. He has, understandably, a lot on his plate with what is happening to him but I am concerned for myself and my son and what sort of problems and debts I am going to be facing upon my ex's death.
2 part post
1. When the title was changed to tenants in common the % each of you own should have been specified. If it was not, you probably each own 50% but this would need to be confirmed by a solicitor.
2. If Welcome have got an interim charging order then they do not have a second mortgage (but see 7 below). Almost certainly, what has happened is that your ex got a loan (not secured on the house) & defaulted on the payments. The creditor then got a County Court Judgement & - because he failed to comply with that - has now gone for the charging order so as to secure the debt on the house. BUT, if the debt was in your ex's sole name they can only secure it on his % of the house. This means that if/when the house is sold the mortgage will be paid off from the proceeds of both your part & your ex's (see 5 below). If there is money left over you will get your % of it without paying anything towards the Welcome loan, which will be paid only from your ex's %. If there is not enough money to pay off the Welcome loan from the proceeds then the rest will be paid from any other assets in his estate (assuming all this occurs after his death). If there are insufficient assets, the rest of the debt dies with him � you do not have any responsibility for it & should resist firmly any attempt by the creditor to make you responsible.
3. The Court hearing you mention will be to get the charging order made final. You need to make sure that � when that is done � it is applied only to your ex�s % of the house. Once the order is final, the creditor can apply to Court again for an order for sale. It is possible for the judge to impose conditions on the charging order. In your ex�s circumstances the judge should be asked to put on a condition that no order for sale should be applied for until x months after your ex�s death. Your ex, or someone representing him, should ask for this.
1. When the title was changed to tenants in common the % each of you own should have been specified. If it was not, you probably each own 50% but this would need to be confirmed by a solicitor.
2. If Welcome have got an interim charging order then they do not have a second mortgage (but see 7 below). Almost certainly, what has happened is that your ex got a loan (not secured on the house) & defaulted on the payments. The creditor then got a County Court Judgement & - because he failed to comply with that - has now gone for the charging order so as to secure the debt on the house. BUT, if the debt was in your ex's sole name they can only secure it on his % of the house. This means that if/when the house is sold the mortgage will be paid off from the proceeds of both your part & your ex's (see 5 below). If there is money left over you will get your % of it without paying anything towards the Welcome loan, which will be paid only from your ex's %. If there is not enough money to pay off the Welcome loan from the proceeds then the rest will be paid from any other assets in his estate (assuming all this occurs after his death). If there are insufficient assets, the rest of the debt dies with him � you do not have any responsibility for it & should resist firmly any attempt by the creditor to make you responsible.
3. The Court hearing you mention will be to get the charging order made final. You need to make sure that � when that is done � it is applied only to your ex�s % of the house. Once the order is final, the creditor can apply to Court again for an order for sale. It is possible for the judge to impose conditions on the charging order. In your ex�s circumstances the judge should be asked to put on a condition that no order for sale should be applied for until x months after your ex�s death. Your ex, or someone representing him, should ask for this.
4. I assume your ex changed ownership to tenants in common so he could leave his share in the house in his will. Do you know who he has left it to, because you will have to liaise with them after his death to make arrangements to sell? If he has not made a will, his share will be left in accordance with the intestacy rules � see here:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/RightsAndResponsib ilities/Death/Preparation/DG_10029802
5. Does your ex have life insurance to pay the mortgage on his death? If not, I assume you will not be able to make the payments so the mortgage lender will have to be told what has happened & asked not to take any repossession action in order to allow time for you & the other part owner to sell the house. (If you can possibly do it, it will be better to get the house sold without it being repossessed by the mortgage lender or by Welcome. If either of them sell it there will be a lot more costs & a lower price.)
6. If the house does not fetch sufficient to pay off the mortgage then the mortgage lender can ask you to pay the rest, but if there are any other assets in your ex�s estate they should also be put towards his % of the shortfall. Ultimately, you could be responsible for any remaining shortfall & if this happens should get an experienced debt adviser to help you, because this sort of debt can often be dealt with in a way in which it does not all have to be paid.
7. I'm puzzled that you say a second mortgage appeared on your credit report. Are you sure the entry refers to a mortgage? Is it for Welcome or for someone else? If there is a second mortgage then it will rank above Welcome�s charging order when the distribution of the house proceeds is made. If the second mortgage is Welcome�s then it may refer to a different transaction from the charging order on
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/RightsAndResponsib ilities/Death/Preparation/DG_10029802
5. Does your ex have life insurance to pay the mortgage on his death? If not, I assume you will not be able to make the payments so the mortgage lender will have to be told what has happened & asked not to take any repossession action in order to allow time for you & the other part owner to sell the house. (If you can possibly do it, it will be better to get the house sold without it being repossessed by the mortgage lender or by Welcome. If either of them sell it there will be a lot more costs & a lower price.)
6. If the house does not fetch sufficient to pay off the mortgage then the mortgage lender can ask you to pay the rest, but if there are any other assets in your ex�s estate they should also be put towards his % of the shortfall. Ultimately, you could be responsible for any remaining shortfall & if this happens should get an experienced debt adviser to help you, because this sort of debt can often be dealt with in a way in which it does not all have to be paid.
7. I'm puzzled that you say a second mortgage appeared on your credit report. Are you sure the entry refers to a mortgage? Is it for Welcome or for someone else? If there is a second mortgage then it will rank above Welcome�s charging order when the distribution of the house proceeds is made. If the second mortgage is Welcome�s then it may refer to a different transaction from the charging order on
Hi Themas. Thanks for taking the time to answer.
We do own 50% each of the property. I am unsure who he has left his half of the house to in his will - think I could be our son but cannot be 100% certain. After reading the Interim Charging Order again there are other credits named on it: Welcome Financial Services, Progressive Financial Services Ltd T/A Welcome, Northumbrian Water and Abbey National PLC, Deeds Services. Would all of these people not have to take into account the circumstances and the fact that my ex husband is terminally ill with weeks to live?
I am unsure if he has insurance on the mortgage but given the fact he has not had any income I doubt this very much.
I just want to be prepared for what problems I am going to be facing when he dies but as he is not providing me with any information at all then I am not going to be able to. Thanks again.
We do own 50% each of the property. I am unsure who he has left his half of the house to in his will - think I could be our son but cannot be 100% certain. After reading the Interim Charging Order again there are other credits named on it: Welcome Financial Services, Progressive Financial Services Ltd T/A Welcome, Northumbrian Water and Abbey National PLC, Deeds Services. Would all of these people not have to take into account the circumstances and the fact that my ex husband is terminally ill with weeks to live?
I am unsure if he has insurance on the mortgage but given the fact he has not had any income I doubt this very much.
I just want to be prepared for what problems I am going to be facing when he dies but as he is not providing me with any information at all then I am not going to be able to. Thanks again.
Has the charging order been obtained for all the creditors listed? If so, this is unusual - normally they are just for specific debt(s) owned by one creditor.
All the creditors should refrain from taking action (other than the charging order) in your ex's circumstances, but this does of course assume they have been told by your ex or someone acting for him about what is happening. Also, unfortunately there are some outfits in the debt collecting business who tend to adopt a very aggressive approach & who might purport to disbelieve what they were being told. If so, a doctor's letter should convince them.
All the creditors should refrain from taking action (other than the charging order) in your ex's circumstances, but this does of course assume they have been told by your ex or someone acting for him about what is happening. Also, unfortunately there are some outfits in the debt collecting business who tend to adopt a very aggressive approach & who might purport to disbelieve what they were being told. If so, a doctor's letter should convince them.
A further thought. If there actually is a second mortgage it will show up on the title deeds of the house. You can download these from
http://www.landregisteronline.gov.uk/
at a cost of about �4. The charging order may or may not be there (depending on how long ago it was issued), but all mortgages will be.
http://www.landregisteronline.gov.uk/
at a cost of about �4. The charging order may or may not be there (depending on how long ago it was issued), but all mortgages will be.
Thanks Themas - have downloaded the title deeds and there are 3 lenders named on it. Welcome are first (i may have signed loan papers in the early 90s for a loan my then husband took out), then the Abbey National plc and then a company called Progressive Financial Services Ltd (I have never signed anything for this company at all). Welcome and Progressive are named on the court document. Abbey National is but is is there deeds section and can only assume this is is because my ex has not paid a bill for the work they did when he changed the joint tenancy to common. It has a record of my current address on it - again from when the paperwork from done for the common tenancy. Does this mean this address will be affected by any bad debts on the house we own together? Do you think I should make contact with these 3 lenders now before anything happens to my ex husband? Sorry for all the questions.
I'm afraid I don't understand what is going on here. I don't see why Welcome should be applying for a charging order covering themselves, Progressive (which from your 21/6 post seems to be part of Welcome, & Abbey) when it seems all 3 already have secured loans/mortgages on the house. It could be, as para. 7 in my 21/6 post said, that the application relates to something other than the secured loans/mortgages but this seems a bit unlikely as all 3 are listed on the charging order.
I somehow doubt whether you will get much joy from approaching the firms direct. It might be better to ring or write (keep a copy) to the solicitor whose name should be on the Court papers you have been sent. This will be the solicitor acting for Welcome. (If you ring them, make sure you get the name of the person you speak to & keep a note of it, & of the date & time of the call & what was said.)
You need to ask for full details of the debts the order relates to, & whether the application is being made against your share of the house as well as your ex's. If it is, you need to ask for documents proving that the debts are joint. Also, tell them you have the title deeds & that you never signed for anything for Progressive. Ask if they can explain how this comes to be on the deeds. (It is possible it is another earlier charging order against just your ex, but one you were never advised of.)
So far as credit ratings are concerned, your present address is not involved at the moment. But, if this ends up with you having a personal liability for any part of the debts (para. 6 my 21/6 post) and that liability is not met then your credit rating could be affected. That is part of the reason I suggested you would need help from a debt adviser if that situation arose.
I somehow doubt whether you will get much joy from approaching the firms direct. It might be better to ring or write (keep a copy) to the solicitor whose name should be on the Court papers you have been sent. This will be the solicitor acting for Welcome. (If you ring them, make sure you get the name of the person you speak to & keep a note of it, & of the date & time of the call & what was said.)
You need to ask for full details of the debts the order relates to, & whether the application is being made against your share of the house as well as your ex's. If it is, you need to ask for documents proving that the debts are joint. Also, tell them you have the title deeds & that you never signed for anything for Progressive. Ask if they can explain how this comes to be on the deeds. (It is possible it is another earlier charging order against just your ex, but one you were never advised of.)
So far as credit ratings are concerned, your present address is not involved at the moment. But, if this ends up with you having a personal liability for any part of the debts (para. 6 my 21/6 post) and that liability is not met then your credit rating could be affected. That is part of the reason I suggested you would need help from a debt adviser if that situation arose.
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