No will and unregistered land.

[Oneeyedvic]

Mrs A owned a property. She has two children Mrs B & Mr C. Whilst Mrs A left no will, it was agreed at the time that Mr C could continue living in the house but the house would be left to Mrs B & Mr C.

Mrs B died in 2000 leaving her estate to her three children (X, Y & Z). No mention was made of the house in the will and I have checked with land registry and the original house owned by Mrs A currently lived in by Mr C is unregiseired.

Can Mr C leave the house to whoever he wants, or is there any way that Mrs B's children can get their 1/6 of the house when Mr C dies? Mr C has no spouse or dependents or children. His only relatives the late Mrs B's kids (X,Y & Z).

Anyone with any legal knowledge care to comment?

[dzug]

On the face of it I would have thought that Mrs B's children are entitled to their one sixth now and have been entitled to it since 2000.

It does depend on whether Mrs B and Mr C owned the house as joint tenants or tenants in common; if this is undefined (it being unregistered) I'm not sure what the default is. Was the agreement following Mrs A's death formalised? If so it may be defined in that agreement.

[Buenchico]

I used to be managing director of a will-writing business so I've got an interest in this type of question. I wish to state quite clearly, however, that I'm not legally qualified and that the nature of my former business meant that I was primarily trying to find ways of avoiding problems caused by intestacy rather than with dealing with the aftermath of such problems!

Here's how I see it:
When A died, B and C each inherited a 50% interest in the house. When B died, if the terms of her will divided her estate equally between X, Y, and Z then (irrespective of whether the property was specifically mentioned or not) X, Y and Z each gained a one sixth share in the property.

X, Y and Z do not have to wait until C dies. Any one of them has an immediate right to demand the monetary equivalent of his/her one sixth share in the value of house. If C is living in the house (and effectively claiming ownership) then each of X, Y and Z has the legal right to demand that C pays them one sixth of the value of the house to 'buy out' their stake in the house. If C refuses to do so (or is unable to do so) any one of X, Y or Z has the right to force the sale of the house (with half of the proceeds going to C and one sixth each to X, Y and Z).

I've got a feeling that this might not be the news that you wanted to hear but it's my honest opinion. Time for Mr C to consult a solicitor, perhaps?

Chris

[Oneeyedvic]

Just to let you know - in this example, I am married to Mrs Z. We were discussing this with Mr X (my brother in law) over Christmas. We are just concerned that Mr C may leave the whole house to a 'friend' of his. He is now in his late 70s and is very easily influenced. He is of course free to leave his half of the house to whoever he wants, but I know that my wifes mother (Mrs B) would turn in her grave if her kids didn't get her share.

Thanks for advice.

[dannydingbat]

I know it sounds silly but, is Mrs A dead yet? You haven't said so. If so, how was the house dealt with on her death? If she left no will, she would have been intesate and her estate would have been allocated after her death by way of Letters of Administration rather than Probate and this would have confirmed who was entitled to what. Has this been done?

[dzug]

Alas, Letters of Administration do not confirm who is entitled to what. They merely authorise the Administrators to distribute the estate in accordance with the rules of intestacy.

[dannydingbat]

In which case they appear not to have done what was required. If they took action to deal with the ownership of the house under the estate, the deeds of the house would recognise who the current owners are. If they did not do so, presumably the house deeds will still show Mrs A as the owner. Certainly, Mr C cannot sell the house unless he can prove title to the land. I believe that if the transaction had been dealt with properly on Mrs A's death, the title would have had to be registered at that time. As it was not, I would bet that the legal niceties have not been done. So, the best thing would be to get hold of the deeds, take them to a solicitor and get it all sorted as soon as possible. Mrs B's kids should be OK.

[Hgrove]

I think Buenchico's answer shows the correct legal position except for one minor point, which is that nowadays X, Y and Z can no longer force a sale on the uncle. The right to force a sale was abolished by the Trusts of Land and Appointments of Trustee Act 1996. X, Y and Z can go to court and ask a judge for an order to sell. The judge can give the order but does not have to. Another point - but I am not sure how this affects the situation: C has legal and beneficial ownership of the property, whereas X, Y and Z have legal ownership only. C can purport to make a will in favour of a friend but such a will would very likely not be valid as he cannot validly leave to someone something which someone else owns. (Nemo dat quod non habet). Hopefully this situation will not arise. If it did, your wife and her siblings will need to instruct a solicitor.

[Hgrove]

P.S. sorry I forgot to say I am not legally qualified either although I have studied law in the past.

[Hgrove]

Me again - sorry - something else strikes me as odd here. How can this house be unregistered? Assuming Mrs A died sometime after 1925, then the title would have been registered when ownership transferred to B and C. This is more of a formal question than a substantive one, however, it is slightly surprising. Ideally, the Register should be kept in order.

[dannydingbat]

Hgrove, the land registry point is the one I was trying to make. If the property had been properly dealt with upon the first death, the land would be registered in view of the "first disposal" rule.

[Oneeyedvic]

Have checked on land registry - no title seems to be there - am currently awaiting further search details to be done. Apparently it may be registered. Will post back when LR come back to me.

Many thanks people