Building surveys

[jgs]

I heard recently a law is due to come in requiring that anyone who wishes to advertise their house for sale must provide a full survey, instead of the prospective buyers having to pay for it.

Does anyone know when this is likely to come into force?

[lady_p_gold]

I think you are referring to the Home Information Pack which I believe is to be done as a trial soon. Eventually it will be required to be submitted by all prospective sellers ... I have my reservations about it firstly because it is at the expense of the seller and secondly because from what I gather, the estate agent is involved and forgive me for being a little sceptical but won't they be rather inclined to use a Home Information agent or whatever they are going to be called, who is going to give a favourable report rather than a totally unbiased one? As it is a lot of people do not realise that when they have a local authority search that they are not getting a proper one and only getting a cheap personal search which costs only about eleven quid (but of course their solicitors do not tell them this and still charge them the full amount) This should explain it more www.hipsdirect.com

[buildersmate]

Not sure about aspects of your response, Lady_P.

Probably like some others, I'm quite cynical about Estate Agents. They market and sell homes, but some Estate Agents are also Chartered Surveyors (some are not). It is surely a Chartered Surveyor that is going to undertake the survey. They have standards to maintain, regulated by their Institute and they also have to have professional indemnity insurance so that if they screw up and fail to spot a technical problem with the house, there is something for the punter to fall back on. So in that way, surely the survey (whether undertaken by buyer or seller) is independent? Being a cynic, I suspect that the profession of Surveyors doesn;t like the idea because just one survey will get done per sale, not the possibility of several. That sounds like fewer surveyor mouths to feed to me.

Regarding your second point about Local Searches, these things check out the Planning Permission situation - that the dwelling the punter proposes to buy has the permission for what is on the site. You can also check out whether there's any third party has got permission to store or deal with anything obnoxious within a radius of the proposed purchase, or whether a utility has got main pipes (sewage, water, electricity, gas) running right under the land. Solicitor does this by writing to the Local Council and asking for copies of the documents on that dwelling - anyone can do this. Not sure what you mean by a personal search?

[Hgrove]

I agree with buildersmate and would add that if the survey is negligently performed, the buyer will be able to sue the surveyor pretty much the same as now (i.e. not that easily but that's another story) notwithstanding that the vendor paid for the survey. Contracts (rights of third parties) Act 1999. The pack should also contain such documents as warranties for fixtures e.g.new windows/boiler etc. or drawings/planning permission for extensions/refurbishments and the like. If you are careful to retain paperwork and receipts, putting together your pack should not be too onerous when you come to sell. It is too early to say it is not going to work.

[Hgrove]

I found the following evaluation of the Bristol pilot scheme in the website of the Deputy Prime Minister: http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1155775

also note this comment: For further information on the Seller's Information Pack contact the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions Press Office on 020 7944 3049. from the following website: http://www.landreg.gov.uk/about_us/pressoffice/notices/default.asp?article_id=3213

[lady_p_gold]

Re some of the points raised, I think my concern came from the fact that there is a new breed of person going to be employed (they are advertising for them on that HIPS site) who are not in fact chartered surveyors although I am sure that they will for the most part be very capable. Regarding the local authority search ... there are two sorts of search you can have. One is a full search ... which is usually over a hundred pounds and contrary to popular belief this would NOT show if a massive block of flats would be built next door or anything other than in the outline of the property you were buying. It would indeed show that any extension etc. had the proper permission and would show anything like previous problems with planning permission. Many of the solicitors do not fully understand the forms (believe me I know) and do not pay extra to tick certain boxes on the two forms involved which are an LLC1 and a CON 29. On the CON 29 there are lots of extra questions regarding pipelines etc. and they are NOT usually asked as they involve an extra fee. The client who is buying the house has no real knowledge of all this, but at least they are getting a full search, and in most cases there is nothing untoward anyway. However, many solicitors pass on the address to a personal search company. In the old days the idea was that any member of the public could come in to the Council and look up information and for this there is a statutory fee of eleven pounds made by the Government. The personal search agent comes in and looks up some basic information, half the time they do not always know what they are doing, although some are quite good. This search does NOT search for things like highway information and lots of other information which could be relevant. The personal search company has massive indemnity insurance in case things did go wrong. There was a case recently .. will continue on next post

[lady_p_gold]

where someone bought a house and two days later double yellow lines appeared outside their property. They were very angry .. and the reason was that they had a personal search and not a full one which would have shown up the fact that the yellow lines were coming. They had no idea they had a personal search and nor do half the people who buy a property because they do not think to ask because they do not know there is such a thing. The personal search company submit an LLC1 for the property which costs six pounds and that is exactly the same form that goes on the normal search but not the main body of it, and so it looks just like a full search with the Council stamp on it and nobody is any the wiser. I moved recently and because I am aware of this my new neighbours checked this out and were totally amazed to find they had not had a full search but only a personal one. This new HIPS thing might change it all .. but for the moment it still goes on and the Law Society says that the solicitor is supposed to explain the different sorts of searches to the client and let them choose, but they never do. So .. anyone out there buying a property make sure you have a full search with the LLC1, Con 29 Parts 1 & 2.

[lady_p_gold]

One last thing - while I agree the the Home Information Pack is quite a good idea and will stop sales falling through at the last minute which we have all found frustrating, as far as I know at present it is in addition to the local authority search and people will still be doing them for the time being. So I think its a case of wait and see how it all works and I think we all agree that our system is very stressful and hardly ever goes without a hitch at present so change is required !

[buildersmate]

A very comprehensive explanation which enhanced my knowledge quite a bit - thanks.

I went to the Hipsdirect site for a look and found this: -'The bad news is that all Home Inspectors, regardless of existing experience or qualification, have to obtain the ABBE Diploma in Home Inspection before they can apply for a license to practice as a Home Inspector.' Too bl**dy right your average punter will want all these inspectors properly qualified and with PI insurance, which the site also mentions.

The thing about the quality of Local Searches was very interesting. To be honest I've always believed in checking these things out myself when househunting BEFORE I make an offer. To me its part of checking out the wider area, as one would do for schools, shops and other local amenities when assessing a property. I've never relied on a slicitor for this stuff. Poring over the Local Plan is a good way to find out what little surprises the Planners propose. Regards, JB