Verbal Agrrements

[Dozy]

Help!!

can anyone tell me anything about verbal agreements? i today recieved a re-directed letter with my name incorrect and incomplete and a previous address incorrect and incomplete from a company who say i owe them monday, not only do i not no this company or recieved anything from them but they are telling me as i have entred a verbal agreement with them they dont need to prove i have recieved anything from them or prove i owe them money and if i dont pay they will give me a CCJ can they do this? i think its unfair to be for a service i havent used... whats the story on this?

[Gef]

If you are telling the truth (as I assume you are) then put the letter in the bin and forget about it.

[Dozy]

i cant do that though my principles are high, i need to get to the bottom of it,

i want to see evidence that i have used there service, that they have provided me with the things they are saying they have, like signed delivery documentation with my signiture and correspondence financially etc... am i entitled to this before paying them any money?

its one of those online school companys that email you all the time. im a bit clueless as i dont have credit other than my mortgage.

[PhilLew]

Sounds like it might be a scam.

Don't contact the company direct until you have found out more about them, you may just be confirming they have got a ligitimate person/address.

Search for the company on the web and see what info there is on them, or post more details here and see if anybody has had a similar letter or experience.

Good luck

[Dozy]

its for a scottish company who are called ICS ive seen them advertised on the television. they are like a distance learning school.

But they wont show me the records of me signing for books or recieving goods from them. They have no record of me using there service IE sending them work or other such things and no prof that i have had any communication with them, the only reason they have my details is the electrol roll. I have not signed a sigal thing or paid them any money and they are saying they will take me to court but i cant see on what grounds when they havent provded me with a service?

[themas]

Are you in England? If not, you need to find out about Scottish law. In England, if they take you to Court you get sent their claim form by the Court and have 14 days to reply to the Court. If this happens you must defend the claim on the basis that you have had no dealings with the company and do not owe them any money. They would have to produce documents to the Court to satisfy the judge that you did owe the money. If they couldn't do that, the Court would not decide in their favour.

Whatever you do, if you are confident you do not owe them anything, don't pay them any money and don't say anything that can lead them to think you do owe them. Tell them you will do nothing until/unless they give you proof. If they are an honest business they shouldn't be relying on a verbal agreement. Even if there was one they should still provide proof of what service they gave you.

[Dozy]

yes im in england thats the other thing im quite sure i never embarked on anything such as what there company offers

Im just going to send them a letter and say that baisically i wont discuss payment with them until im satisfied by documentary evidence that i have aquired and used their service.

[sandbach99]

Bo not give anyone your correct name and previous address unless someone with authority ie the court orders you to, as the company will just alter their records to make things look better. The company says you gave a verbal agreement, how do they know they were speaking to you?

Try phoning ICS, or whoever the firm is, not the number on your letter, pretend you are asking about a course etc, say to them you would like to start as soon as possible so do you have to sign a contract or will they take a verbal agreement, if by chance they will do a verbal agreement ask more about what the course consists of, then say its' not really what you want and put phone down. Withhold your phone number or use a pay as you go mobile and don't use your real name. This may be a scam

[stanleyman]

Report this to the Trading Standards, otherwise ignore it, no company can rely on a verbal agreement to do business. In order to have a contract there must be an acceptance of the terms on both sides and a consideration. If you have never dealt with them before then there can be no contract and if there was it would probably be an unfair contract and unenforcable. They do have to prove you have a contract and only a court can issue a CCJ, they will never go anywhere near a court and are just frightening people to pay them. This maybe a spoof company claiming to be ICS.

[gammaray]

It's a con.. Once perpetrated on company's now switched to the domestic arena. Their "evidence" of your agreement to buy will basically be their telephone bill which will show a record of them dialling your number. You won't remember the call but they would have said something like "Hi, this is your local council here, were just checking details for the electoral role etc etc...blah, blah, blah" basically that record of them phoning you is then on their bill. What they will tell you is that they will take you to court and present their evidence and they are hoping that will scare you enough to pay. You don't say how much it is but the scam usually plays out for less that �100.

Your details were all incorrect because they use partial records taken from a variety of "illegal" sources. The best they to do IS to bin the letter. Under no circumstances contact them. If you respond it increases your potential as a mark because you were sufficiently concerned to contact them. They may send you a few more letters before they eventually get fed up and move on.

[Dozy]

the letter that i have recieved from them says that they have brought the debt from this ICS and that it will be them that will subject me to court action, the letter they have sent me offers no dates or information, and the only reason i called them is becuase they had my christian name which is very unusal and i can guarantee no other person in my home town has that name so i was concerned as to how they had obtained it.. i dont no what to do now... do i ignore them? write to them? call them again? all i am concerend about is if i ignore them that they will issue me with a CCJ without me noing as i have heard that companys can do this?

[Gef]

I stick by my previous answer but if you are still concerned contact your local Citizen's Advice Bureaux for free advice.

[themas]

The Court claim which can lead to a CCJ has to go to the last known address of the alleged debtor. If they now know your address then you would get notified of any claim and be able to defend it in Court.

If you decide to write to them or call them again make absolutely sure you do not admit liability in any way - in fact, deny any liability. If you call, get the name of the person you speak to & keep a note of it, with a summary of what was said and the date and time.

In a lot of cases, even if the debt is genuine, the bit about going to Court is a threat to try and get payment but is not followed up. However, if these people have bought a debt they might be different. Only you can decide which way to go.

[Hgrove]

If they issue against you, the claim form must have all the details on it. If it is vague, you could actually apply to have the claim struck out (get a Citizens Advice Bureau to help you). If you do not owe the money, enter a defence as has already been said. If it jogs your memory and you suddenly remember you do owe the money, write so on the claim form, send it to court with the payment, and that will be the end of the matter. There will be no CCJ against you.

[Hgrove]

If you do enter a defence, "I do not owe the money" is not good enough. Go into some detail explaining why it can't be right. Get a friend to read it to make sure it reads well. It helps if you make it nice and easy for the court to read what you write.

[stanleyman]

Just to repeat, companies cannot issue a County Court Judgement, only a judge can do this after hearing the evidence and if there is a legal case to answer. However, a claimant can get judgement by default if the defendant does not respond to a summons but it can be set aside and heard again if they genuinely did not get the summons because it was sent to the wrong address.

Call their bluff and tell them to take you to court to sort it out and if they do, which I very much doubt, ask the court to transfer the case to your local court which you can do so that they will have to travel and think better of it.

[gammaray]

It's a variation of the scam. Bin the leter, if they turn up at the door claiming to be debt collectors call the police.

[dozzell]

I dont know if it is the same firm, but I had a letter from a company called ICS, under the heading Utilities Investigation. It was suspicious becasue although it was addressed to me, not only did it ask for my details (such as name and address) but the name of the previous owner of my house and their new address.
What made me wary of it was that it did not say what utilities it was investigating or what type of investigation it was. It didnt use the name of any utility provider either. We tried to call them but only got through to an answerphone and none of our calls were returned, so after a while we binned it. I wonder if its the same firm. This one had a business address in Leeds.