planning permission & building regulation for a conservatory

[ericc]

I am buying a house and just found out the conservatory has not applied for planning permission and building regulation which are required.

Right now the vendor is going to get indemnity policy. They said an indemnity policy will protect us if local authority has to remove the conservatory in future. However someone tells me the policy is invalid becauuse the council is already aware the conservatory was built without approval of planning permission & building regulation.

And my solicitor says they can get a non-enforcement letter from council because the conservatory is 4 years old.

My concerns are:

1) will i have problem to sell the property if I only have indemnity policy + non-enforcement letter? Is this good enough to protect yourself as a buyer?

2) If they can't get non-enforcement letter from the council, I have to apply for retrospective planning application by myself. Therefore only thing I have got is indeminty policy. Should I proceed with exchange of contracts?

3)where do I stand as a future owner ofthe property? what documents I must get before proceeding exchange of contracts.

I would be very much grateful if you could advise me. I suppose to exchange of contracts this Friday 29 Sept 06 and my solicitor just want to close the file ASAP and get his monies and run.

[Big Al1st]

Hi Ericc, What make you think the conservatory requires planning permission?

Al

[druiaghtagh]

I dont think that conservatorys require planning permission as they are considered 'temporary' buildings

[Cetti]

This may help ericc, to whether planning permission is required or not.

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/conservatory/conser vatory-planning-permission.html

[Big Al1st]

Some conservatories require planning permission if the exceed size and height requirements, and whether they are used as as an extension to the main room ect.

http://www.savebuyonline.com/planning.html
Rgds Al

[sddsddean]

Best bet would be to phone up the council planning department and ask their advice as planning is a nightmare at the best of times. To clear up the comments above regarding needing planning...this is up to each council and the circumstances of the house. For instance, my house is allowed 70 cubic metres of non planned 'extensions' extra to th house. Unfortunately, this is taken up by the double garage (35/single) built at the same time, so I required planning. My next door neighbours garage is built into the house, so they don't need planning as they still have 75 cu m to play with (confused yet!). I later found out that if I had built a little brick arch over the back gate (between the house and the garage), this would have made the garage part of the house, so I wouldn't have needed planning! Basically, the whole affair is a nightmare, so speak to the local council.

[buildersmate]

There are a range of responses above reflecting different people's experiences and comments. Some are helpful; others are just plain wrong.
The link that Cetti provides above details of what are known as Permitted Development Rights. These normally entitle you to extend your dwelling larger than the original size in the Planning Permission (when it was 1st built). Conservatories do need Planning Permission, except that you can often use your Permitted Development Rights up, as some have pointed out. Building Control Approval is not required for a conservatory unless it has an external area greater than 30 square metres. This is because they are regarded as non-habitable rooms.
If a conservatory (or any other structure that should have required Planning Permission) has been up more than 4 years, the Council cannot force its removal and the homeowner can apply for a Certificate of Lawful Usage - which regularises the situation. If the vendor is proposing to get an indemnity policy at his own expense then fine - that's more added protection for you. But if he can prove its been there for more than 4 years (photographs perhaps of family in the garden?) you don't have too much too much to worry about. Frankly your solicitor should know about these Planning Permission issues - that's what you are paying him for.

[ericc]

thanks so much for all of your advice.

my solicitor is not helpful at all, as I mentioned earlier they just want to close the file and run.

My local council has already confirmed that the conservatory requires a planning permission.

does anyone has any advice on indemnity policy? somebody told me that indemnity policy is invalid because we have already spoken to the local council and council is already aware the conservatory was built without a planning permission.

[buildersmate]

If this conservatory has definitely been there for more than 4 years, the best bet is the Certificate of Lawful Use. The attached link shows how Gloucester City Council explain it - I picked it out at random because it seems to explain it in plain English. The onus is on the householder to apply for and justify the circumstances behind the request. http://www.gloucester.gov.uk/Content.aspx?URN= 3740#5

I looked at a few of these Council Planning Permission websites that explain the Lawful certificate 'rules', looking for one that stated the 4 year rule that you have heard about and I am confirming. The only one I could find was here http://www.pcnpa.org.uk/website/default.asp?SI D=306&SkinID=5
This is a National Park Authority in Wales - look at para 3. The same law (Town and Country Planning Act 1990) applies to England & Wales, so I hope that gives you comfort. I take it you are very sure this structure HAS been up more than 4 years?
If you are determined to go ahead with exchange on Friday and your vendor can produce an indemnity insurance policy that will reimburse you for your costs in applying for this Lawful use certificate, then perhaps it is good enough for you. The fees are the same as if you were making a Planning Application - �135 for a modification to an existing dwelling. Otherwise, I'd be asking for about �500 off the selling price for the pain and grief of having to do it myself (its the vendors problem, not yours)

[ericc]

thanks for your advice, buildersmate.

can you give me advice on indemnity policy? somebody told me that indemnity policy (which the vendor is proposing) is invalid/breach of condition because we and my solicitor have already spoken to the local council and council is already aware the conservatory was built without a planning permission.

[buildersmate]

As you know, insurance policies are about protecting the insured against the impact/outcome of certain risks. These single premium indemnity policies are typically available to protect a householder against some potential defect that might occur. For example, if the title of a property contained a restrictive convenant that prevented extending a property without the permission of a third person (and it is not known where that person is), and someone had put an extension up, it could be possible for a vendor to buy a policy to protect from the convenant holder turning up and demanding a sum of money (to grant permission)s. I'm not sure that a policy is available for the type of situation you describe particularly as the Planning Department has been made aware of the existence of the structure, but you could check by either phoning a decent broker and asking, or phoning someone like Norwich Union (in Norwich) and asking to speak to their Professional Risks department.
I repeat, if its been there 4 years, no-one can force it to be removed, but as the guidance at the Gloucester Council website says, householders are advised to regularise the situation by obtaining the Certificate of Lawful Use. Its your vendors problem, but I guess you don't want to risk losing the house by delaying. If you exchange without resolving it, it will become your problem when you eventually sell, and your buyer will probably demand a Certificate of Lawful Use. There isn't enough time now for your vendor to get the Certificate; there is enough time to get an insurance policy (if such a thing is obtainable, which I doubt) because they are sold following exchange of faxes that answer simple questions on a proposal form. You must then get your solicitor to review the insurance policy terms.

[buildersmate]

I see now that you've been corresponding on another thread regarding the legal aspects of this. I hope my efforts tie up with what Jenna says.

[ericc]

thanks so much for your advice, buildersmate, you know I am so glad I accidentailly log on this website and have obtained so much valuable advice from lots of people, like you and jenna.

spoke to council and the vendor and it seems indemnity policy is invalid in my case. The vendor has just agreed to apply for certificate of lawful developemnt which would take 6-8 weeks. so date of exchange of contacts would not take place this friday.

the vendor may now apply for cert of lawful development, but at the same time, they may let other people to view their house in order to get a higher bet. also estate agent still refuse to put 'sale agreed' on the sale signage. What can we do as a buyer? we are obviously interested in buying the house but may not get the house in the end (even though we havemade so much effort)