When is hard too hard?

[BetteK]

No, that's not a quiz question!
With all the current discussion about whether answers should be asked for or given or how soon should anyone ask for help I began to wonder how hard is too hard?
I am currently struggling to find a couple of answers on a couple of quizzes but think they could well prove to be "too hard" for me. Question is, do I admit defeat as closing time approaches and not send the quiz back or send it in anyway?
I have set the odd quiz in the past and even though I have collected the £1 entry fees in advance and so "have the money!" I have always felt disappointed when few quizzes are returned for marking and people comment they were too hard. Of course, I don't think they were and always ensure any answer is "findable".
I would - I think - choose to send an incomplete quiz back if only to show support but wonder if sending in my £1 is support enough?
I know my limitations and rarely tackle cryptic quizzes or crosswords but like to tackle others.
As for asking for help far in advance of the closing date - personally I have "given up" on three questions in the St. Guthlac's Number Hunt quiz even though the closing date is still far off (and NO I am not asking for answers!!!) - I have exhausted all the avenues I know to work out these last three answers and even if I had another 6 months then I know I would not come up with even a guess - well, ok, I could make a guess but it would be a daft one and not an informed one.
Just wondering!

[AB Editor]

Hi BetteK,

As this could lead to an interesting discussion I've made it "sticky" at the top of the section so all Q&P users can have a chance to respond.

All the best,

Spare Ed

[mazie]

I dont think they are ever too hard BetteK, I think we look at clues for so long our mind takes us down the path we think we should be on. I've only done a few quizzes and If I find I'm just getting nowhere with a particular question I'll put it away for a while. Invariable when I pick it up again a light bulb comes on and I see the obvious. I'm the same with crosswords as well.
As a quiz setter do you mind people asking for answers to your quizzes on this site?

[hellywelly4]

I know what you mean. I'm like that with the Insects quiz for the Air Ambulance. I sat all yesterday afternoon, and did manage to solve a few more, but I still haven't finished it. It's one where you pay up front, but even so, I hesitate to send it it because I haven't finished it. (I'm like you with the Guthlacs one as well).
I have asked for help on this site, but if the setter has asked for no questions to be asked on the Internet, I do respect that. It is difficult, however, not to get the answers from questions which other people have asked. I feel very guilty, though, and it does tend to spoil my enjoyment when people come on with a whole list, and obviously haven't tried.
Perhaps it would help the quiz setters if they make us buy the quizzes first. I know some setters won't let you download their quizzes now.
Having said all that, I do enjoy this site, and different people's opinions.

[mazie]

I do agree helly with the 20+ list of clues to some of the quizzes that are posted on here and usually I wont answer or give clues. I can never understand why you would send for a quiz and not have the pleasure of working towards the answers, no point as far as I'm concerned. I don't mind answering at all if someone is struggling with the last few clues. The other problem is people do come on here asking for CLUES only and as soon as the submit button is pressed someone immediately gives them the answer rather than the pointer they requested..

[BetteK]

That's an interesting quesiton Mazie and strangely enough I'd not though about it. I've never wondered where anyone who does my quizzes actually get the answers! They have only ever been given to friends or "sold" at school etc, and, to be honest, until recently I didn't know sites like this one existed. I found it Googling a quiz answer a while back and was delighted when I got some help but then "forgot" about it (sorry ABEditor!) for ages. It never occurred to me to keep coming back here.
I do go down the line that maybe clues should be given rather than the answer outright but that's just my personal opinion of course. Only after TOTALLY giving up would I then beg for the answer outright - more just to be put out of my misery. Then again, it is only since the start of the year that I realise how serious all this quizzing business is and I was surprised to find out just what goes on!
I still haven't answered your question have I? OK - maybe as a quiz setter then I am mercenary and really only want everyone's £1 for the cause I am supporting so don't really mind where they find the answers. As a participant of a quiz I think I do find it annoying when I have spent ages researching and looking for answers myself only to then find someone asking for many questions at a time and seemingly - seemingly - not put any effort into working at them. BUT - I have spare time to look things up and love the challenge so maybe someone with less time or inclination prefers to take a different route and get more help.
I'm a bit of a hypocrite I'm afraid though and will ask for help if absolutely stumped.

[mazie]

You sound a bit like me BetteK a foot in both camps, always a bit difficult.

[BetteK]

I just know that when I only get a few quizzes returned for marking I feel so guilty that I did, indeed, make it too hard. I try to console myself that if only one person got them all right then the answers were "findable" and it wasn't too hard. Then I get the other end of the scale and the quiz came back but with most answers missing and I have a mini-meltdown! BUT I am grateful for that person's support - not only in handing over their £1 but in bothering to send the form back.
I am gutted when trying to sell a quiz and people's faces drop and say they will pay the £1 but either won't take a copy of the quiz or take one and warn me they won't be doing it because it is "too hard". I made the last one I did ridiculously easy and still only had a few back.
Maybe I will give up quizzing - participating or setting - and take up knitting.

[mazie]

Do you ever advertise your quizzes on here?

[BetteK]

I never have done Mazie because I only found out during the past couple of weeks that you could.
To be honest I am a bit put off doing any more after falling out with my best friend over a quiz (the ridiculously easy one I mentioned before!) I set for her. Her daughter went to Peru and the school at which my best friend works was supporting them and she asked me to set a quiz - which I did.
She took me up on the offer of selling quizzes on her behalf as I have several friends whom I knew would be supportive BUT when one of the quizzes I sold won she was cross and said she wanted the winner to be someone from the school. I was furious when, in the end, she bought a duplicate prize so I could give one to the "real" winner and she could give the other to "her" winner from school.
Like I said, maybe knitting is less stressful.

[mazie]

Yep, knitting might be better BetteK. I need a new scarf if you're interested ;o)

[Big Jenny]

As a keen quizzer, I get a lot of enjoyment out of finding the answers myself - especially quite obscure ones. I only ever ask for help, preferably clues only, when I am absolutely stumped and the closing date is looming. I don't like sending in incomplete quizzes, though I have done when I simply couldn't finish. The "hardness" of a quiz is something no-one can really define - we all have our particular interests and specialist subjects, and what is dead easy for one person can be quite hard for another. For example, I would never consider buying a quiz about sport - I know nothing about it, and am not the slightest bit interested in it.

As a quiz setter, I have never minded people obtaining their answers from whatever source they wish, although I do often wonder why people bother to buy a quiz if they're not going to make any attempt to solve it themselves. It's not as though the money prizes are life-changing amounts! I'm inclined to agree with BetteK that, when setting a quiz, the main thing is to sell as many copies as possible to make lots of money for the chosen charity, however I would never try and tell people what they can and cannot do to find the answers. If they've paid their money, then it has got to be up to them how they solve it. It is nice to get a lot of entries returned. It makes you feel that people have enjoyed your quiz and are interested to see where they went wrong. I don't like to see almost an entire quiz asked on here, or similar sites, within a few days of it going on sale. That seems totally pointless, and I can understand that it makes other people feel like giving up.

Your friend sounds very petty, BetteK, wanting to try and "rig" the winner of your last quiz. What's the point of that? All those people who bothered to solve the quiz and send it in deserve an equal chance of winning. It doesn't matter where the winner comes from - their money is as good as the local entrants'.
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[Mamyalynne]

I don't think there is much I can add to this that hasn't already been said. A plea for help as the closing date looms is one thing but to ask as many as half a quiz with weeks/months to go is not on.
I often send them back in with blanks, two reasons really. First when you get the answers back it gives you insight into how to work out further clues from that setter,secondly many of the quizzes I do have follow ons, so if I do not send back I may miss the next quiz.
One of my bugbears is the title of 'Local Quiz', whilst it may be local to the person doing it I prefer the honest title, eg, 'East Anglian Air Ambulance' Quiz.

Have just counted my quizzes in progress, I have 24 on the go ranging from closing this month to October and am struggling on a few, doubt I will even ask for clues on here as very often you do that and someone thinks it is right to give answers.

I too have noticed that charities that previously let you download for free and send money in with entry have stopped doing this as sales have fallen.

As for St Guthlacs, well I am as stumped as anyone else on at least three LOL

Happy quizzing

Mamya

[society]

What might be easy for one may be difficult for another. None of us know everything; so if someone has a question or three, they should not feel embarrassed to ask.

Ask away, BetteK :-)

[craft1948]

As an experiment one Sunday I completed the MOS prize crossword entirely using the answers given to other people on this site, and that is definitely worth winning..............btw I didn't send it in.

[DSJ]

BetteK, I am the setter & main seller of the 'Number Hunt' quiz. Please return your incomplete quiz sheet to me before the closing date. As it says at the top of the sheet, there are two smaller consolation prizes to be drawn from ALL entries returned, even if incomplete or with some incorrect answers.

There will be a follow-on quiz, hopefully available from the closing date of the current one, so enclose your £1.00 cheque with your returned quiz sheet & SAE.

[BetteK]

Thanks DSJ - I do hope I've not offended you in any way ... I'm really concerned about speaking out of turn here as things seem to get a little heated. It really is not a problem and I will return the form even if incomplete - I am not bothered at all (honestly) about winning any prizes with any quizzes I do and it really is the challenge of finding the answers I enjoy ... if "enjoy" is the right word!
I am continuing to think, think, think about those final three answers and still hope for a light-bulb moment ... trouble is my light-bulb is really rather dim and it is hugely frustrating but I am happy to hold up my hand and admit defeat when necessary. At the moment my hand is half-way up so who knows ... I might just be struck with inspiration yet!

[Calibax]

I must admit I feel a little disappointed when I see a long list of questions from a recent quiz with a distant entry date but I don't have a problem with people posting a few that they're stuck on if they want to get it finished and out of the way. This is an answer site after all and I don't think it's very different from passing it round ones friends at work or at the pub.

[alexanderd]

Really there is no difference in asking on here or looking the answer up in a book, which I often do but as to what is hard, all quizzes are easy if you know the answers. The only people that annoy me are the ones who ask for loads of answers which, I think, shows a lack of effort on their part

[boxtops]

I send back incomplete answers if I really can't find a solution.