I am asking this question seriously...because I have just seen the trailer for JO Frost

[smart1]

...what is it I don't 'get' in regard to parenting in current times? Do they (the kids) get to do what they want to do/eat because of the parental 'no slap' rule - OR - is it because parents will give in to anything because they want a quiet life?

[smart1]

Crossed wires I think Boo - we seem to agree.

[emmie]

my mother read to us all as children, she cared for us, we weren't neglected, nor badly dressed or fed, even though we didn't have a great deal in every sense, not tree huggy rubbish, just common sense, which many parents seem to lack these days. Sit in a public place, back to that again, say a restaurant and watch what happens when parents are with their children, often they are ignored, or left to run around the place, doing as they please. Many have no manners, and live in a me me culture, which has led to a breakdown in school discipline and home life. I have seen this over and again. What's worse is the childen as they grow and get to be parents themselves just repeat the pattern. These types of programmes do highlight a malaise in society, you don't lock your children away, seen and not heard bred a lot of very sad children, but if you give in to your child every time it asks for something, then sorry you have made a rod for your own back.

[joko]

as with most situations, the ideal place is somewhere in the middle...a happy medium...

[emmie]

sitting talking with some friends a few weeks ago, though i wasn't so much watching, a mother gave her baby, who was no more than 9 months old, crisps, and as the child started to choke, i felt like going over and saying something, i didn't, the mother had to pat the child quite hard to dislodge the crisps, and as everyone knows don't tell another parent how to raise their child. Common sense, that's the ingredient that is missing.

Smart1, i don't have the answer, only what i see on a day to day basis.

[smart1]

Joko - That is EXACTLY the liberal idealism that has made the youth of today what they are. Are you mad?

[annie0000]

i love my kids overwhelmingly it seems sometimes, I am however one of the strictest parents I know - it is failing them in a way when you don't teach them to be responsible and well behaved.

[Eve]

Maybe less consistent discipline bearing in mind how much more powerless schools seem to be in enforcing discipline and, with the increase in both parents working, maybe even child care providers too with the fear of being taken to task over something and losing a career.

Maybe overthinking things with all the new trend of the psychology behind everything rather than simple straightforward discipline.

[Barmaid]

On a very personal level, my OH has a teenage child. He lays down certain rules (which to be fair are not terribly strict, but are reasonable and issues sanctions if not obeyed). Said teenage child thinks that the world owes her something and she can do what the hell she likes. Sadly her mother supports this point of view as a way of undermining my OH and parents in an inconsistent manner. Thus teenage child is allowed to speak to my OH and me like a piece of dirt (and I am no stranger to "industrial" language but the things she says appalls me). If she is disciplined (normally, grounding or sent to her room) the police get called. It is ridiculous. The child is now the parent because mum lets her be. And guess what? The welfare checklist at Court takes into account the child's wishes. 3 guesses what they are? "Not to see dad because he makes me do things I don't want". Game over.

[annie0000]

very sad barmaid - tbf, most teenagers think the world owes them a favour - most grow out of it and realise what a prat they were. Hopefully this will happen for your partners daughter before too long.

[starone]

I have noticed that no matter what you do children grow up and make the same mistakes as their parents did (or similar). All you can do is try your best to bring them up to be thoughtful, kind and caring - and respectful. My husband was strict with our two (a bit Victorian actually) but did not slap them. They were just expected to obey the rules of the household. My son rebelled against this and left home at 18 to live his own life. When he eventually settled down to married life he brought his two up in the exact opposite way with a free and easy household because he thought it was wrong to be strict. They are now busy acting in the same way as he did and there seems to be little you can do about it. He cannot understand why he has no control over them. There comes a time when you have to let them go and just stand by in case you need to pick up the pieces.

[smart1]

Barmaid - I have asked you to help me - now maybe, I can help you. I am in no way being flippant when I say 'What the F are you thinking?' You cannot survive in that situation with your views. Get a grip. You and your partners view have to prevail. If they don't, what hope?

[welshlibranr]

I think it's the latter in most cases smart!...........Very sad, but true!.....

[joko]

oh dear, smarse 1...you really seem to have a problem comprehending simple concepts don't you...?

are you seriously suggesting that its best to practice extreme parenting in either direction? really?
which is best then - being extremely easygoing with no discipline and treating child like a friend and spoiling them?
or
ruling with an iron rod. being strict and cold and expect your kids to be seen and not heard...?

seriously? are either of those wise or good?
or should parents, as i said, find some middle ground with a good mix of kindness and fun alongside discipline and guidelines?

you need to learn to consider what people are saying before jumping in and bizarrely berating people with your nonsensical ill thought out comments.

i hope you are not a parent if thats your style...

[LDC134]

I don't have any children but one thing I have noticed with my friends who do, which seems to make a huge difference is money. As someone posted earlier, there were no dinner choices because there was only one option. Food treats were exactly that - treats - as were trips out / holidays. 'Available to all' credit has given people far more money for x-boxes, trips to disney and new clothes on a whim. Therefore these things are not respected for what they are, and the 'give me now' culture continues.

[Kassee]

Boo, do you really think children learn to respect you because you smack them. Thats called fear, not respect.

Children learn to smack others, when they are smacked themselves. Most bullies in the school playground will be bullied at home, and are being led by the example their parents have set them.

[sherrardk]

I don't understand how it gets to such a point that children are so badly behaved. I have lots of children, all of whom are quite young, but they are polite and well mannered (something which is commented upon by friends and teachers - I find it odd, all children should be well mannered) and are well behaved (apart from one of the three year olds - but I think it is a phase she is going through (well i hope so)). I don't smack (they don't do anything to warrant it even if I was a smacker) and I don't recall ever having to punish them for something. Don't get me wrong, they have their moments and get told off and if need be go on the naughty step but these occasions are few and far between.

[joko]

i remember my brother twins were playing on a swing thing and it toppled over and hurt one of them...he wasnt really hurt but wasnt happy...so my mum bent down an started smacking the swing saying, 'ooh naughty swing, smack him' and encouraging him to hit it too...so they both started smacking the swing...!

i pointed out that while she had just thought it would make them feel better (how i dont know) that actually, in there unformed minds she had just taught them to smack anything that doesnt behave the way they want it too...including possibly other people and children, and possibly to break things...

she was surprised...then felt awful...it just hadnt occurred to her...(shes 73)

my dad (82) ....got angry and huffy with my sisters child when she was very small because he seemed to think she didnt respond to things he said and did sometimes because she was being naughty...not because to her he was just a funny big lump moving about and making a noise.
he would exaggeratedly shake his head from side to side with a 'stern' look on his face and wagged his finger...sometimes saying 'no' as though training a dog! he thought she understood what these gestures meant - but was being disobediant and silly...he seems to think kids are just like us, miniature adults, but small, daft and naughty...he doesnt grasp that socially learnt things take time and that their heads are largely empty of that kind of thing.
i think for some its these kinds of lack of understanding of children in general that causes conflict with child rearing.