FAO Craft1948 @ dothawkes

[ironmonger]

Re bare knuckle boxer.
I have now received a birth certificate for James Carney (Jem). I sent for it on 6d 103. I am not sure if it is the right one. It shows his name as James CARNAY born 20 Oct 1856. His birthdate shown as 5 Nov 1956 on all his boxing records must be wrong as the register office could not locate it.. His parents on this are shown as Michael CARNAY and Mary CARNAY formerly ROACH. I have tried to match these names with the GROGAN family but no luck so far. It looks like I am back to square one but I will keep trying.. Best wishes to you both.

[craft1948]

I don't know how that has happened as I have now checked the original transcript, it is written not typed, and the name given for 6d 103 is definitely Carney and not Carnay. I can only think that the person transcribing it made a mistake between the certificate and the actual register.

[ironmonger]

Hi Craf
I have rechecked and it is spelled CARNAY.It is handwritten quite clearly and is the usual type of birth certificate I get from Birmingham Register Office.Photo copied

[craft1948]

No what I meant is that the register has obviously been given the wrong spelling as it should have read Carnay the same as the certificate. I'll have another search but ancestry seems to be down at the moment....I'll try the genealogist.

[craft1948]

I'll have to wait for ancestry to come back up ironmonger......the funny thing is that I cannot find a James CARNAY on the censuses in the genealogist.

[craft1948]

Ironmonger where have you got his exact birth and death dates from?
It's just that you say he died in 1941 but the only James Carney I can find dying in 1941 around London was registered in Brentford, and gave his age as 80, which would give him a birth year of 1861.

[ironmonger]

Hi craft1948. Thanks for your reply. Sorry I have not replied earlier as I am only on line
during the daytime. Interesting point about how his name is spelt. My cousin who is a lot older than me informs me she thinks at times it was spelt Kerney along with other variations. The year of his birth I took for granted after it was shown on all his boxing records. I did see the Carney death in 1941 but ruled that out as his boxing records
show 1945. The B.C. I have now was suggested by The Registry office as the only one they could find. This help was given to me by a member of there staff who I phoned and realised I was born in Birmingham now living in North Wales and that he had often visited the town where I now live. One Brummie to another did help. Will keep trying with the new info and will let you konw what happens. Ironmonger

[munchie63]

just out of interest ironmonger, have you written to the british or us boxing commissions during your research ?
Not sure how much info they might have, or be willing to give, but a politely written letter, explaining how you're trying to find all you can about yout relative may do the trick.
They must have had documents given/shown to them for his boxing licences, and it's possible some info still exists....it's how much time they have to help you that counts I guess. Got to be worth a couple of stamps though

[ironmonger]

Hi Munchie63. Thanks for your reply. I have an old friend who used to be a boxing referee and he has made enquiries, but all he has got is his boxing records. That is all they seem to be interested in. All these I have got. It seems his private life is a mystery. Any way I intend to carry on.