The EU

[flashpig]

I have a vague understanding of EU politics, but I am largely unaware of what is going on. I am, for some reason, inclined towards the EU but I have no reason for this. Please tell me what I should know. What is good and what is bad, what the constitution means etc. The basic overview (assume I know nothing).

Obviously all are free to chip in, but I am hoping to get a response from Bernado (because he is against it, and seem to be reasoned enough to explain it to me rather than lecture or badger or shout at me).

I wouldn't mind some people speaking up FOR the EU as well, just so that I can get both views.

Please don't treat this as a recriutment seminar, I don't want propaganda, but I know there are two sides to each story and I wouldn't mind hearing each view on the EU bumf.

[jake-the-peg]

The greatest achievement of the EU is that the political and economic links that it forged has after centuries of fighting made even the concept of a war between member states nearly unimaginable.

I'm not a great fan of Winston Churchill but he was right on this one - he said "We must try to build a sort of United States of Europe"

Economically we have more clout when we speak as one

US GDP 11.7 Trillion dollars

EU GDP 11.6 Trillion dollars

UK GDP 1.8 Trillion dollars

You do the maths - There are a lot of people around the world who don't want another superpower on the block and will try to "divide and rule"

You'll hear a lot of their arguments here - they mostly revolve around a sort of "What's in it for us Brits" angle

[Zen]

The greatest achievement of the EU is that the political and economic links that it forged has after centuries of fighting made even the concept of a war between member states nearly unimaginable.

I would dispute your opening statement,.I would put the reason down to the formation of NATO rather then the undemoocratic,corrupt EU.

[vehelpfulguy]

Saying the EU has reduced or stopped wars in Europe is like saying it rains in Manchester because their are no elephants there.

Both statements are true, but it is impossible to prove a link between the two events.

Generally people dont have wars when they are well off and fairly happy, and contents with their countries borders.

Europe has grown rich and happy since the second world war and the people were unlikely to go to war with or without the EU.

I do not believe the EU has stopped any wars or conflicts in Europe.

[jake-the-peg]

NATO is a treaty organisation (which doesn't even include France)

There have been hundreds of treaties in European history and they've all failed to prevent war spectacularly.

The Europan Union has worked becasue it sucessfully intermeshed the economies of the treaty states.

We have alliances with both Europe and America. The links with America have (and are continuing to) cost an awful lot of British service men their lives the links with the EU have not.

[Lonnie]

Jakes right about Winnie, but I believe he said 'in Europe, but not part of it', I may hve not got that exactly right, but thats the gist of it, basically, for trade.