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Is there a god?
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Is there a god? I mean look at all the different relgions around the world who all believe that THEY are right & the others are wrong. They can't all be right can they. Which is why in my opion it all rubbish.
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Clanad
Interpreting the Bible.
(I knew I had read something on it!!)
Joachim Jeremias
http://www.vts.edu/2001/nt1/ntterms/jeremias.htm
in his book �New Testament Theology�, in Part 1, Chapter 1, Page 1 says that we have nothing written by JC, it was 30+ years before any of it was written down, by then it was translated into Greek, and, he says, �It was inevitable that during this long period of transmission alterations took place in the tradition�. (My emphasis).
JJ is also fond of the phrase �Sitz in leben� and it is quite a useful phrase. I prefer Kant�s �Das ding an sich�, myself. And we are looking at the thing itself (the actual text of the Bible), and not the context of it�s message, are we not?
No there isn't, and anybody who says there is is just being human and needing more from life. If this presence, this physical and mental actuality is so amazingly unlikely then there must be a point to it. The life of a slug is, on a probablistic scale almost exactly as unlikely: what is the point to slugs?
We are all meat puppets who hope, and why not, that things are special, or could be made special. Things can be special without resorting to holy ghosts, fairy stories and make-believe. Be nice, enlarge the lives of yourself and those around you, be special and enjoy the ride, all entirely god-free.
The greatest trick the devil played was making people believed he never existed. Let's put that in another way....the greatest trick your so called "GOD" played was making people believe he's always existed. What is the point of these statements ? It's all in your mind. The Devil, God, Jesus Christ, Heaven and Hell. Nothing's what it seems. For all I know or anyone else out there could know, we could be an expirement of some sort.
Hi Merlin,
I was going for the duality kind of puppetry-the ghost in the machine in the driving seat, no external influence or dual control (although that gets a little confused) driving instructor kind of motivation. It is in our nature to discuss, and to seek middle ground-can't we just get there sooner rather than later, and forget the basis-God/god all boils down to how clever are we and how eloquently can we express our thoughts on the subject. I'd rather enjoy the company than try to out-argue a subject that is so patently inarguable (with any hope of logical conclusion I mean). Let's just cut to the chase and agree to agree or disagree or not even understand each other or conduct all future conversations in binary or whatever and get on with getting on.
I look @ the complexity and the stunning artistic endeavour of the animal kingdom; I look at how we as humans are craving love and attention and how unlike animals we always seem to find the supernatural interesting -whether it's ghost stories, extraterrestrials, the various religions, wondering about what is after; why do we as humans always long for a point to life? We search our whole life for meaning to this ratrace they call life. So yes I believe there is a God who created us and this Earth. TGGNM
On-the-trot
Just to come back at you a bit; where in the �complexity and the stunning artistic endeavour� would you place decay, cancer, deformity, famine, war, murder, genocide, extinction, etc etc?. They are all factors in the natural world and are not all of man�s making. In any case, If you have read previous postings, then you will know that I�m of the opinion that the human is still an animal and, to some extent, still behaves like one. Many higher animals crave attention for various reasons (but mainly for one reason!), but then again, not everyone craves attention. We look for meaning in life because it�s in our basic nature to need one. But not everyone needs one. That search leads to what�s �beyond� and it is because our intellectual capacity has evolved to the extent that it has that we are able to contemplate the numinous stuff. None of this can lead directly to the conclusion that there is a higher intelligence that created the cosmos.
TGGNM?? � Thy God governs no more? This goat goes nine miles?
Just to come back at you a bit; where in the �complexity and the stunning artistic endeavour� would you place decay, cancer, deformity, famine, war, murder, genocide, extinction, etc etc?. They are all factors in the natural world and are not all of man�s making. In any case, If you have read previous postings, then you will know that I�m of the opinion that the human is still an animal and, to some extent, still behaves like one. Many higher animals crave attention for various reasons (but mainly for one reason!), but then again, not everyone craves attention. We look for meaning in life because it�s in our basic nature to need one. But not everyone needs one. That search leads to what�s �beyond� and it is because our intellectual capacity has evolved to the extent that it has that we are able to contemplate the numinous stuff. None of this can lead directly to the conclusion that there is a higher intelligence that created the cosmos.
TGGNM?? � Thy God governs no more? This goat goes nine miles?
Raindog: Eloquence and fine articulation are not prerequisite to a meaningful debate. You can, you know, just say what you think and argue the toss from what you know, like. Seriously, though, for proponents, antagonists, apologists, whatever, to robustly present their views to each other just may lead to a middle ground and just may, even here, result in some progress. If you're right, your right and no amount of clever talk can make you wrong. The truth is the truth, whatever - it is absolute, whatever it is.
on the trot - a dog without a master. in search of meaning, unfulfilled being, or what? quite frankly a ridiculous argument unsupported by logic and fact, relying entirely on your limited perception of reality.
the argument from design is so incredibly flawed when given any consideration. here we are, 5 billion apes that need to sleep for 1/3 of our time, feel the need to kill each other and dominate others, given to suffering from agonising pain and incurable disease apparently on some natural whim, excreting bodily fluids all over the place, and with the miracles of medical science JUST extending the life expectancy over 70 in the most civilised countries. If we were designed by a perfect being I would question his mindset - foolish, immature, imperfect, or downright evil.
It becomes evident through this debate that a lot of people 'claim' to believe in god because they have no other explanation for why we are here, or cannot fathom the other more rational explanations. I say to these people - think damn you. USE your brains instead of letting them rot as the various religions would have it.
And on the fourth day - still no word in defence of the Bible text.
I cannot understand why, these days, anyone can rely on the entire text of the Bible as being statements of facts. I accept that there are parables. I accept that people are reported to have 'said' this or that and that they said it but it turned out not to be true, I accept that symbolism is used. I am not talking about that. Just the plain historical accounts. John was an eyewitness and wrote his version after the other three and with knowledge of them. His account differs in 'fact'. What I also cannot understand is why there should be (until now) such a persistent defence of inerrantism when to agree that the Bible is to be interpreted rather than relied on as fact does nothing to damage anyone's faith and does not alter whatever story is behind the gospel. But showing that inerrantism is a flawed argument supports my position. Maybe that's what is feared.
ChrisD
I ought to give Clanad and IR more time to respond, but I just can�t help myself.
We don�t have to look at all the different religions around the world; just some of them.
In the Encarta encylopedia table �Numbers of Followers of All Religions�, �Christians� and �Muslims� have significantly the highest number of adherents. They and Judaism trace their history to a common God. Together they comprise by far the greatest group that promote belief in �God� (as the term is generally understood in the western world). Yet, as you say, they cannot agree on even the fundamentals of the nature of God or on whether JC, Muhammed or another yet to come is the Messiah or saviour or chief prophet (forgive my ignorance of the correct terms).
I have to ask myself (well, only rhetorically ) Why don�t they agree? All the time they can�t agree, they lend support to the atheist position; the position that I have described in earlier postings. This does not necessarily mean that they are all wrong.
So your question is unanswerable definitively but I would say that the overwhelming evidence is that there is no rational reason to believe that there is a God.
Your observation is obviously correct: they cannot all be right.
And you are entitled to your opinion (but I would disagree with it).
Answered����..sorted.
Welcome to the �dark� side! :-)
I ought to give Clanad and IR more time to respond, but I just can�t help myself.
We don�t have to look at all the different religions around the world; just some of them.
In the Encarta encylopedia table �Numbers of Followers of All Religions�, �Christians� and �Muslims� have significantly the highest number of adherents. They and Judaism trace their history to a common God. Together they comprise by far the greatest group that promote belief in �God� (as the term is generally understood in the western world). Yet, as you say, they cannot agree on even the fundamentals of the nature of God or on whether JC, Muhammed or another yet to come is the Messiah or saviour or chief prophet (forgive my ignorance of the correct terms).
I have to ask myself (well, only rhetorically ) Why don�t they agree? All the time they can�t agree, they lend support to the atheist position; the position that I have described in earlier postings. This does not necessarily mean that they are all wrong.
So your question is unanswerable definitively but I would say that the overwhelming evidence is that there is no rational reason to believe that there is a God.
Your observation is obviously correct: they cannot all be right.
And you are entitled to your opinion (but I would disagree with it).
Answered����..sorted.
Welcome to the �dark� side! :-)
The problem with being right on this kind of subject is that it is damn near impossible to either a) prove or b) set out in wordy things. If something that is accepted as 'a bit complex' (we now end our masterclass in understatement) has to be written down, and then in a little box by me, it doesn't work-and as for truth being an absolute, well. We can try to bash out a middle ground, and probably we will, but isn't it going to look something like There may be something; it won't be like accepted religions say, we can call it a 'force'; it, or one of the derivitive religions using an approximation or ersatz version of it, will be used to enslave, mollify, or otherwise quieten the sheep; we won't get fooled again (huge Who powerchord); and true enlightenment will come from some form of self-actualizing, but if it makes people happy-why not? perm any three from ten, add a flake and Bobs your theory. There is only so much we can discuss on a subject like this, and there are several bottles of wine I'd prefer to get on the outside of. The eloquence incidentally came bundled with the staggering looks and wit-****** all I could do about it.
We may not be able to 'prove' the existence or therwise of an intelligence greater than man's (let's refer to it as 'God'), but we can look at descriptions of God, or accounts of what he did and identify what's impossible. That way we may get to a description of God that is actually coherent. It still won't prove that there is one,
but it may prove that most people's ideas of what God is cannot possibly be true.
I suspect that what would happen in the end may be that a coherent description of God would be remarkably similar to a description of natural laws (physics, chemistry, biology etc) so that what some people call God, others would call nature. Different names for the same things. Then, perhaps, we would say that there is no God because the description of him only describes what is natural.
And truth is an absolute. 'God' either does exist or he does not.
And if the AB Ed had to edit your posting, then may I be so bold as to suggest that perhaps your eloquence and wit still need some work done on them?
And there is a threefold point to the existence of slugs: their low position in the food chain, they are excellent bait for barbel and they remind most other creatures how lucky they are not to be a slug. And (fourthly) they provide an outlet for all the salt that people aren't eating anymore. And before anyone proposes 'A Woman's' as an intelligence greater than man's - think about it first!!
but it may prove that most people's ideas of what God is cannot possibly be true.
I suspect that what would happen in the end may be that a coherent description of God would be remarkably similar to a description of natural laws (physics, chemistry, biology etc) so that what some people call God, others would call nature. Different names for the same things. Then, perhaps, we would say that there is no God because the description of him only describes what is natural.
And truth is an absolute. 'God' either does exist or he does not.
And if the AB Ed had to edit your posting, then may I be so bold as to suggest that perhaps your eloquence and wit still need some work done on them?
And there is a threefold point to the existence of slugs: their low position in the food chain, they are excellent bait for barbel and they remind most other creatures how lucky they are not to be a slug. And (fourthly) they provide an outlet for all the salt that people aren't eating anymore. And before anyone proposes 'A Woman's' as an intelligence greater than man's - think about it first!!
God exists for an individual that believes in him. It comforts him to know that someone is looking out for him. So the question shouldn't be is there a God? But do u believe in one. For some people the creation of this universe and ultimately us might be a miracle, but for others it might be just a coincidence.
You have all made a mistake in your reasoning.
When you say, "are all the religions in the world right?" you are agreeing with the person who said that all religions are very similar.
What does every religion in the world have in common?
Each and every religion tells us to be a good person and tells us how to do it. Every religion is about being the best person you can so that when you die you will go to heaven, be reincarnated at a higher level, etc.
Right?
Wrong.
Every religion in the world says these things except one.
While all religions teach to be a good person, Christianity teaches that you can not be a good person.
Why?
Because you have (at some point in your life) messed things up.
Christians believe that every single person on Earth has done something wrong. And, no matter how good you live your life from then on, you messed up, and God will punish you.
Christianity is often chastised, because while it claims to be a "good, loving" religion it teaches that unsaved sinners will go to hell.
This certainly doesn't sound loving.
BUT, think about it: God (by definition) is holy and perfect.
and so is his standard.
God doesn't require you to be a good person.
He requires you to be perfect.
And no one is. No one.
So, all is lost?
No.
THIS is the part where God's loving kindness comes into play.
See, God knew that all had sinned, so He did something so that we could be perfect again.
He made the greatest sacrifice that has ever been made.
He sent His Son to die on the cross.
So, when you say "all religions", you're breaking the rules.
When you say, "are all the religions in the world right?" you are agreeing with the person who said that all religions are very similar.
What does every religion in the world have in common?
Each and every religion tells us to be a good person and tells us how to do it. Every religion is about being the best person you can so that when you die you will go to heaven, be reincarnated at a higher level, etc.
Right?
Wrong.
Every religion in the world says these things except one.
While all religions teach to be a good person, Christianity teaches that you can not be a good person.
Why?
Because you have (at some point in your life) messed things up.
Christians believe that every single person on Earth has done something wrong. And, no matter how good you live your life from then on, you messed up, and God will punish you.
Christianity is often chastised, because while it claims to be a "good, loving" religion it teaches that unsaved sinners will go to hell.
This certainly doesn't sound loving.
BUT, think about it: God (by definition) is holy and perfect.
and so is his standard.
God doesn't require you to be a good person.
He requires you to be perfect.
And no one is. No one.
So, all is lost?
No.
THIS is the part where God's loving kindness comes into play.
See, God knew that all had sinned, so He did something so that we could be perfect again.
He made the greatest sacrifice that has ever been made.
He sent His Son to die on the cross.
So, when you say "all religions", you're breaking the rules.
Cmack88
A Christian may not be properly Christian if s/he doesn't try to spread the word. It is arguable, I suppose, that JC only charged the apostles with preaching to the four corners, but there is probably an onus on every Christian to make some attempt to convert evry non-Christian. That is one answer to why there are so many religions - Christianity has failed to take up JC's instruction with sufficient gusto.
ok ty for that i have found a good page for faq's about god here it is. http://www.400monkeys.com/God/
tell me wat u think
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