Garden/Boundry dispute?

[schmungo]

We are having a neighbourly dispute,which seems to be escalating.Instead of me repeating myself,is ot ok if i give you a link to the problem,i have already asked elsewhere on another forum,and some of the replies.


I would be very grateful if anyone could offer any form of advice please.

Thanks for taking the time to read......

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph p?t=9910&start=0

[schmungo]

Here is another link,where i asked the question and some replies off there too http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread .html?t=1889753


WHERE DO WE STAND?

[Nosha123]

Wow... Shmungo.. I cant quite believe the mess you are having to deal with. Your neighbours are totally out of order - and I sympathise as I too have difficult neighbours (as do some other ABERS here) including one lady who's neighbour complains that their tree drops leaves in her garden!!!!!

I dont know that you will get advice from here that you havent already got. But I agree with all the other posters advice.

The onus is on them to prove the 2 inches (or now 3feet/3metres!!). It will affect a sale on your house as you will have to declare it - so consider maybe renting and not selling if you dont need the money. Advertise to someone with a kid who plays drums perhaps! Or has a noisy dog!!! Or likes to collect rubbish!!!

These people have no life and are only out to cause misery to you - move on and forget about it as much as you can. I am not a legal expert but I would imagine your case is very strong.

[Nosha123]

I found this on someone elses neighbour dispute.. could be useful to you!

That their clients false claims and behaviour constitutes Harassment and that they either rescind all claims of a boundary dispute in 14 days or issue Court Papers in 14 days

If they fail to do either you will consider the matter totally closed and will sue their clients for Harassment and any loss of value their behaviour and false claims causes

[LoftyLottie]

Nosha - On which website did you find that. We are in a similar position and that information could be very useful to us.

Thanks

LL

[Nosha123]

Looking now for you Loftylottie.. one sec

[Nosha123]

Here you go..
http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph p?t=11852

It was part of the second post on the page.

Amazing forum site!!!! I had NO IDEA neighbours could be so damn bonkers!!!!! It would seem that I am not alone in my suffering!!!

Jees what is wrong with people??? Do these people not have full time jobs or other things to worry about???

[LoftyLottie]

Wow Nosha - that was quick. Thanks so much. We have lived in our property for 30 years with the same boundaries and a neighbour who moved in 5 years ago has accused us of not only moving the boundaries but of building a new fence on his land. The fence we put up was on our side of the boundary and was only put up to stop his continuous harrassment on various issues. The bloke is demented and no he doesn't have anything else to think about. No job, no wife, no life.................

We have now had a letter from his solicitor letter accusing us of moving the boundary which has meant we are the ones that are defending ourselves!! The letter says we will be taken to court if we don't take the fence down and we actually would like to be taken to court as we have so much proof that we have never moved boundaries. We are now going down the route of counter suing and that link is terrific.

Thanks once again x

[LoftyLottie]

I would give you some stars but it's not my post. So

* * * * * * * * * * ** *

Sorry schmungo, for butting in on this, but it's such a similar case.

[Nosha123]

Pleasure Loftylottie.. good luck with your court case! Its a good position to be in since if you do win they will probably have to pay your costs as you didnt instigate the action.

Our neighbours got their solicitor to write to us asking us not to contact them directly but to communicate through the Party Wall Surveyor (who has now completed his work and been dis-instructed) and the Solicitor has never written to us (as clearly they have no case against us) so its been left like that! We are not allowed to speak with them.
Fine by me - except the old cow tries to catch me in my car when I leave in the mornings - so I just ignore her!
Batty old cow.
Fingers crossed yours gets settled once and for all soon! I know how draining it an be - even when you have done nothing wrong.
The onus is on him and his solicitors to prove it - and you seem to have a valuable amount of evidence to counter
prove it!

I would add in a counter claim incl compensation for harrassment and defamation of character! That will shut him up!
Jees!!!!!

[LoftyLottie]

We have photos dating back to 1980 that show the boundary in the same position, we have a surveyors report that says it is obvious that we have gardened in the same area for 30 years. He is claiming that trees I planted 25 years ago should be in his garden. Our previous neighbour is willing to sign a sworn statement that the boundaries are the same.

His solicitor is trying to blind us with loads of legal jargon. Our land registry documents are totally useless. We didn't register our house until 2002 when we changed our mortgage and the plan shows the houses in 1969. The houses are about 250 years old and three houses have become two. We will never know who erected the fences of the boundary we have always accepted. He is using measurements from deeds back in 1936 to claim we have 'stolen' his land. To make it worse he claims that I told him we had 'stolen' his land. Of course I did...........????

What makes it worse is we are having to defend ourselves!!

Thanks for letting me vent schmungo. All I can say is that I know exactly how you must be feeling.

[schmungo]

Thanks for all your replies so far,we were looking down the harassment avenue,will ask the solicitors Thutsday.By the way,i look after my mum who is 65,and not in particulary good health,she has made appointment at doctors,all this crap is sending her blood sugar sky high and blood pressure.

Neither of us are sleepimg particulary well neither,fretting about all of this,did not eat a thing yesterday,what with knowing they had contacted our estate agents about the dispute.

[LoftyLottie]

I empathise completely with you. This guy has spoiled our quality of life for over a year now and it annoys me that we are letting it upset us so much, especially as we have done nothing wrong. We have already warned him about harrassment through a solicitors letter when he decided to cut our hedge down and wrote that he was going to take down the boundary fence last year. He quietened down and a year on this happens. My husband has been very ill recently and I feel 99% sure that all this has contributed.

Good luck schmungo. Hopefully, all will come right for both of us in the end.

[schmungo]

Good luck to you also loftielottie.
How can you live for 20 years peacefully and nicely getting along with all neighbours,no problem,then these toss-pots appear and your whole life gets messed about.

[LoftyLottie]

That's life I suppose Schmungo, you realise that there are bad neighbours about but until something like this hits you you can't appreciate how devasting it can be. I feel uneasy about my home now after spending 30 years here.

But it will be OK - I have to keep telling myself.

xx

[Nosha123]

to both of you - I have reached the point where I have decided - I know I have done nothing wrong - so bring it on - pick your battle and prepare to fight me.... I am now confident that any action my neighbours take will be fruitless and I have evidence to back me up.

Now that I have changed my mindset - I am sleeping better. You need to rise above it and change your mindset folks.. I know its hard - but these time wasters next door to us all really have nothing better to do and the sooner we realise they enjoy making our lives a misery - the sooner we need to change it.

Get the ball back in your courts... and fight them dirty

And have a few friends round for a BBQ party with some loud music this summer!

They want something to complain about - I'll give it to them!
Parties, music, lawnmower noises, me driving to work with stereo blaring! BRING IT ON COS NOW I AM READY FOR YOU!!!

[Nosha123]

And as for Loftylotties comment:
"He is using measurements from deeds back in 1936 to claim we have 'stolen' his land"

Even if you HAD stolen the land years ago - you would have the right to keep it if you have maintained it for 12 years without any objections.. so tell him to poke it! How can you be liable for taking something that didnt belong to him until 5 years ago.... He bought that has as viewed - any issues re boundaries should have been brought up by surveyor or them at the time of buying.

[buildersmate]

Schmungo
You have received some good advice on the other thread, and you are using a solicitor.
It is surely extremely probably that this has been raised now precisely BECAUSE you are proposing to move, and these petty neighbours realised that it is their best opportunity to get what they want because:
1) It automatically creates a 'dispute' that you would have to disclose to potential buyers, who may therefore be put off
2) They consider the best chance is for you to agree to moving the boundary now as you have less interest in maintaining the status quo on the boundaries - just getting sold and moving on (at least that is probably their perception).
The other correspondents talked about 2 potential legal mechanisms by which the land is yours:
1) The Prescription Act 1832
2) Adverse Possession
Whilst I am not saying thin & cripsy is wrong (I, too, am only an amateur in this), I had always believed that the Prescription Act applies to rights of one landowner over another's land (NOT to ownership of that land). It's most common application involves a right of access, it can also apply to a right to light, and there are various other rights it can be used for. The period of time is 20 years minimum, as others have pointed out.
Adverse Possession (known as Squatters Rights in the popular press) involves occupation and maintenance of another's land - leading to the eventual opportunity to register the land with the Land Registry as one's own. I am not clear why one of the correspondents says you should not be using Adverse Possession - because to me it is absolutely the legal mechanism that should be considered. Except that in the case of 2 inches of land, the argument goes back to 'where the fence exactly is and how long has it been there'.

[buildersmate]

The expensive legal resolution of this is to involve the LR in determining the boundary. I'm surprised no-one has even mentioned this - even if it is not to be recommended. It involves paying for a surveyor to decide where the boundary lies. It's for your solicitor to advise you, not me. I agree it's for them next door to prove - using the LR process - which they must pay for.
The relevant reference is Land Registry Public Guide 19 here - have you read it?
http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/assets/library /documents/public_guide_019.pdf

[LoftyLottie]

We have done this Builders Mate. We have had to hire a surveyor as advised by our legal team. The surveyor has ascertained that our old deeds and the land registry plans are all in a complete mess. It is a 250 year old house on a parcel of land. A 1969 drawing was used on the first land registry at 2002 even though changes (several of them have happened on the land and the buildings). We had no idea this had happened as the land registry was completed by our building society at the time when we changed a mortgage. We never saw it!

At present the legal team is working towards adverse possession for us. So not only do we have history evidence and photos, we have the surveyors report saying garden features prove we have gardened it for years and also will have a sworn statement by our past neighbour that the boundary remains the same since 1984, when he moved in, to date. However, we feel aggrieved that we have always considered our boundaries correct(and can prove to have gardened there for 30 years) and have done no wrong, but are accused of stealing land before the present neighbour moved in!!

We are the ones who have been forced to defend ourselves even though this man has been harrassing us, lying about us moving fences and other things. Adverse possession makes us feel that at some time we took the land, even though we have never changed the boundary markers during our 30 year occupation.

We are assured that we are OK because of adverse possession, but we have had two years of harrassment and want to countersue now. Our neighbours solicitor has no idea of the history over the last thirty years. We have been accused of tampering with the boundaries, commandeering land and erecting fences without any evidence being offered. If the boundaries were tampered with is was before 1979 and we have no knowledge of it.

[LoftyLottie]

However, if we do win on the grounds of adverse possession we will then have to hire a solicitor because we can't have a new LR title plan drawn up without the agreement of our neighbour and that will be another fight, because he will never give his agreeement.

I would rather now that it go to court because they haven't a leg to stand on and it would force the issue. Also we are using a Legal team because we have Legal Costs insurance in place.

Hence we wan't to counter sue and Nosha's link's suggestions may well form part of the action.


A very complicated story.