New boiler

[crapmemory]

My boiler is now extinct but still working. I need a new one but would appreciate some advice. At present my boiler is floor standing in a purpose built cupboard in my hall. British Gas have said that a new one needs to go on an outside wall(I'm in an end terrace)and they want to fit it in the loft at an extortionate price! Does anyone know if I can have a new boiler put where my present one is? TIA

[paddywak]

I've recently had a new Combi boiler fitted and they fitted it in the old airing cupboard (not an outside wall). I don't know your circumstances, but if you are over 60 or claiming disability you may qualify for a housewarm grant, which will cover some if not all off the cost. I believe the maximum grant is now in the region of 4 grand so if you think you or your partner qualify it's worth spending some time checking it out

[Hawkwalk]

get a few quotes as British gas are often expensive. I had quotes from 3 different companies with costs from £2,000 to £4000 and all stating different places that the boiler could and could not go. The loft did come up as an option though as this is a well ventilated area and out of the way.

[buildersmate]

The problem is that most boilers are now 'balanced flue'. This means they suck the air in from the outside, then vent gases back out through the same pipe (which is a concentric pipe, having a small pipe inside the outer pipe). Your old boiler is very likely not this type and it draws the feed supply air from within your house, then feeds the gases up through a single pipe flue. There are limits on the maximum length of a balanced flue pipe - this is to make sure it gets adequately fed with air, as well as ensuring it can get rid of the waste gases. If your existing boiler feeds into an upwards flue out through the roof, you aren't going to be able to replace it with a balanced flue equivalent.
On this one, I don't believe BG are trying to sell you something unneccessary - but their price will still probably be higher than a Heating Engineer's.

[terence7556]

if you are in an end terrace , why can,t you have the boiler in the kitchen or somewhere else on to an outside wall.is this not practible or are there cupboards in the way?
i prefer to see my boiler and hear it, its in my kitchen. if it leaks then i can see the it before too much damage is done.
im not keen on the loft area as a position and be aware that BG will expect the loft boarded out (if it isn,t already) for their lads working up there, at your cost
why not get some more quotes and see if they agree with the position that BG suggested

[crapmemory]

Terence I am with you on this one! When I suggested to BG that it goes in my kitchen(I have wallspace on the outside wall) the guy giving the quote said that was a good idea but they would have to run the pipes under my bedroom floor and down into the kitchen.(This is because I have concrete floors downstairs).They agreed to price this method and it was the same as having it in the loft!
Paddywack I'm not over 60(still in my 50's)but where do you live? I am in London. If anyone on here can recommend a good firm please let me know.

[paddywak]

I'm in Nottinghamshire, and both disabled and over 60. The only disadvantage of the scheme is that you don't get to pick the contactor, the people who did mine actually came from Peterborough, having said that they did an excellent job and their engineer who did the original site survey has called in twice when he's been in the area to check everything is OK. If anybody reading this thread is in the same position as me its well worth checking out to see if they qualify,as a result of the grant I got a complete new system for my bungelow, new boiler, rads, the lot plus cavity wall and loft insulation for a payment of £650 over the value of the grant, which as I sid in my first answer has now gone up

[gucciman]

Hi

Corgi/gas safe registered heating engineer here.

Firstly, do not use British Gas if price is your prime concern. Yes they do a top quality job, they do it quick, you have comeback with them and they offer finance but they are going to be at least twice as expensive as a smaller independent firm. There are plenty of ex-british gas engineers out there who now work for themselves and who will do a good a job as B.G.

Secondly, without surveying the site it is impossible for me to say if your new boiler can go in your old location. Your old boiler must have had a flue leading to the outside so there may be a way the new boiler can be installed in the same place. You have to be aware though that the new condensing boilers need to be near to a drain point for the condensate as well as needing an outside wall for the pressure relief pipework.
the usual place to install a combi is where your hot water cylinder is as that will no longer be needed and all the pipework except for the gas will be present, again though an outside wall is needed.
I'm not a big fan of boilers in lofts as personally if i have a machine in the house with gas, electric, water and live flames i like to be able to keep an eye on it. Also if the boiler is in the loft which is the highest point of the heating system if the system was to lose water then the boiler could run dry and ruin the heat exchanger or at least keep cutting out due to the low water pressure protection device. if you do put it in the loft then according to the gas regs you need a proper loft ladder installed for ease of access and a boarded walkway from the loft hatch to the boiler with a safety hand rail.

Thirdly, if your going for a combi or any boiler for that matter look no further than a Vaillant or a Worcester-Bosch Greenstar, no point in considering any other make in my opinion, a bit more pricey but well worth it.

[gucciman]

My advice to you is get the yellow pages out, find 3 local independent engineers and get quotes from them. When looking for an engineer i would look for someone with a decent sized advert and someone who puts their home phone number and possibly address in the ad, i'm always a bit sceptical of people who only operate from a mobile phone number. Also ask around your family, friends, work colleagues to see if they can recommend anyone who has done a good job in the past for them. You could also contact your local council and age concern both of which keep records of trusted tradesmen.

I mainly do service and repairs rather than installing but as a rough guide presuming all your rads and pipework is ok and it's just the boiler that need replacing your going to be looking around the £2000 mark with a good quality boiler. Bear in mind though that under current legislation you may need your radiator valves replacing for thermostatic ones, you may need a room thermostat and a new programmer, your gas supply pipe may need upgrading and there could be location issues to deal with, all that could add to the cost.

Hope that helps, i know it sounds complicated but don't panic, to a good experienced installer it will probably be a doddle !

I dont get on this site very often lately but i'll try and keep an eye out to see if you need anymore advice.

p.s. if you live in the birmingham area or nearby contact me as i can give you numbers of several installers who would do a good job at a fair price.

[buildersmate]

Are there still boilers on the (domestic - readily available) market that don't use a balanced flue, then Gucci? I assume there must be - otherwise you wouldn't be suggesting a new boiler can be installed in the centre of a house - too far (umpteen metres away) from an external wall?

[crapmemory]

Thanks Gucci for your advice(wish you lived in London!). Paddy what make and model is the boiler in your cupboard?

[paddywak]

It's an Ideal ISAR HE24. only had it in about 8 months but up to yet had no complaints at all about it

[gucciman]

do not under any circumstances purchase an ideal isar !!!!!!!!

builders mate, there are no boilers on the market anymore that use a balanced flue, they are all fan flued.

and i did say its hard to give an answer without surveying the site, but most fan flued boilers can be adapted for longer flue runs by using 2 seperate flues, 1 for the exhaust gases and 1 for the air supply.

[Daily-Editor]

gucciman - can you advise me please. I have a three-year-old Worcester Bosch Greenstar RI. If you are familiar with this model it has a blue light which is designed to flash if the boilder develops a problem. However, the blue light itself is no longer lit. Could this be as simple as a 'blown' LED. Is it safe to continue using this boiler without the blue light. Apologies to crapmemory for invading your post.

[Everhelpful]

I would keep away from British Gas,dearest people in the World.

[paddywak]

Gucciman, wht have you got against the Isar?

[gucciman]

hi

i have attended a couple of training courses at worcesters headquaters, it could be a blown led but there is actually a way of turning the blue light off and you may have accidentally done this. unfortunately i cant rem off the top of my head how to do it and they don't tell you in the manual they left you with, you have to have a copy of the service engineers manual

your best bet is to ring worcester and ask them as they have the best technical/customer support of any boiler maker. and yes if the light is out but the boiler is operating normally then it is safe to use as it has a whole host of safety devices built in.

and the ideal isars are one of the worst boilers ever made, unreliable, extremely difficult to fault find and repair, even the ideal sales rep at a trade show i went to recently admitted they were a bad mistake and they had had nothing but trouble and complaints over them. one british gas engineer on here joked that if they had an isar to repair they would phone in sick they hate them that much.
the new ideal combi boiler the logic has been totally re-engineered and looks a decent boiler.
in my opinion there is no valid reason for looking at any other boiler than a vaillant or a worcester.

[crapmemory]

Got three different heating companies coming this week to quote me for a new boiler. I will let you know how it goes. Wish me luck!

[crapmemory]

Gucciman are you there? Got 2 of my 3 quotes. First one £2850 all inclusive with Worsecter-Bosch. Second one gave me 3 prices depending on which boiler:
Glow-worm Ultracom 30cxi £1890,Glow-worm Flexicom 30cx £1820 & Vaillant EcoTec plus 831 £2065. These quotes are to move my boiler into the kitchen. I am waiting for the 3rd one who has suggested putting it in my porch which has an outside brick wall.
Your comments would be appreciated. TIA.