Frozen pipes

[wolf63]

A couple of weeks ago I had a slight flood in my kitchen - it has happened before.

The water pipe that takes the water out of the building freezes up when it hits the big, bad world. When the contents of my sink/washing machine hit the frozen bit the water backs up and floods the kitchen (and the flat downstairs).

Is there anything that I can do to prevent it happening? I am two floors up so it is not easily reached. Does it freeze up at zero or is it sub-zero before it should freeze up.

The weather is going to be about-11℃ over the next few days and I would prefer not to flood out the neighbours.

Can this happen to my toilet as well? It is on the third floor - if that matters at all.

[AlBags]

Hi
Unlikely to happen to loo.
Sounds like the outlet waste from sink (40mm?) needs boxing in up/across to the stack pipe. Bit of GF where it matters .. and cut out draughts .. that should fix it.
No way else apart from permanently running hot water or warm air through/around it.

[scotman]

I don't see how an outlet pipe can freeze. If it has the proper gradient there should be no water lying in it to freeze.

[NazNomad]

There shouldn't be water laying in the pipe that can freeze, unless you have a trap outside somewhere, or your house is below freezing inside. Brrrr.

Possibly the water in a trapped-gulley at the beginnning of the underground drain might freeze. If your waste pipe is sealed into this drain that might cause problems.

I suppose it's possible that the water could back up 3 floors from a frozen gulley, but I've never seen that before.

How do you know it's freezing that's causing the back up? Is it a shared soil-stack?

Without actually seeing your pipe-runs, it's impossible to say.

[AlBags]

If you were builders or plumbers, you would know that they can and do freeze. Caused by permanent drip-draining of water from corners/joints in pipework building into frozen mass at outlet, and the fact that they are seldom more than 1:40 gradient at wall junction (unlike guttering)

[NazNomad]

"If you were builders or plumbers"

lol ... prat.

[AlBags]

Yep .. right .. if you were ***.

[AlBags]

***

[The Builder]

Can't say I've ever heard of this Wolf. As the guys have said, waste pipework should always be empty.
Just guessing, but "two floors up" may be a bit of a clue. I reckon there's something amiss with the connection to the stack.......... or it's bunged up. No one's ever been bothered to get up there to have a proper look.

[scotman]

Wolf

When you say it floods the flat below exactly how does this happen? Does the water go down through your floor or is it something else?

[The Builder]

Re the freezing possibility .................... I didn't think of that. Constant dripping could lead to the "icicle" effect..................
That's two things I've learnt today. The other was from the eminent Doc Spock :o)

[wolf63]

I understood some of the above.

I had this problem at the beginning of this year and got a plumber out. He checked out everything under my kitchen sink and washing machine plumbing and found no problem. I think that the water goes down through the floorboards.

It has only happened a few times in the last 20 years so it is not a major problem.

Our roof is due to be fixed sometime soon (hopefully - it is leaking in my bedroom and I have had to move into the spare bedroom) and there will be scaffolding going up - might get the guys to look at/into the pipe.

As long as the loo and the electric shower work I will be okay.

Thanks

Susan

[BRIGHT SPARK]

Over prolonged sub zero spells the icicle effect will cause a blockage...ask any one of the thousands of combi owners about frozen condensate pipes last winter.The answer as Al says is to insulate or wind heating tape around the affected area and keep it switched on during frost.It only costs a few pence a day to run.

[wolf63]

>>>>>> The answer as Al says is to insulate or wind heating tape around the affected area and keep it switched on during frost.It only costs a few pence a day to run.

Do you mean keeping the central heating on all the time?

It has been on 24/7 to keep the cats warm. ;-)

[BRIGHT SPARK]

Heating tape is like insulation tape with an integral electrical element.....you then plug it into an electrical socket...(.found in most homes)....the tape then heats up and stops the pipe freezing. This will not provide a permanant solution but could get you out of trouble short term.

[alavahalf]

Reading this thread makes me smile ... surely if anyone was to put their head outside the door you will feel the cause of the problem... ''It's FREEZING''

2 days ago I got a call to a blocked pipe in a first floor flat. The lady said her washing machine was flooding her flat when it emptied, and the water had gone through the floor, and damaged the ceiling of the flat below.
Not unlike wolfs problem... but I'm sure the altitude difference between first and second floor properties will make no difference.
I never even bothered to get my pipe clearing spring out... I opened the window and looked out and could easily see the problem.
''Get the kettle on I said'' ... ''do you fancy a cuppa ?'' said the customer.
When the kettle had boiled I then poured the water out of the window onto the frozen hopper which collected water from the waste pipes ( bathroom and kitchen) which was a large mass of ice. Three kettles later it was gone.
The lady had a leaking ball valve in the cistern and a dribbling tap in her basin. These were causing water to dribble down the wastepipes. .. and as Al has already stated a permanent drip will soon turn into a frozen mass regardless of gradient ... the cusomers pipes were running about 45% into the hopper.

So it's a definite Yes ... water will freeze in an outlet.

[wolf63]

alavahalf - I have a dripping tap in my kitchen. It has never been fixed because one of the cats drinks out of it.

I was going to wait until the weather improved before doing a washing, but the forecast for the next few days is cold, colder and even colder.

[The Builder]

Sorry for leading you astray there Susan........... as I said, you learn something every day :o)
In my defence, we don't usually get much of that freezing business in "sunny" Devon. lol

[scotman]

Along with the Builder's comment can I just add that there are no open hoppers or gullies in Scotland and it is very foolish to leave any tap dripping in this weather.

[wolf63]

scotsman - are hoppers and gullies the birds that dement my cats by running over the flat tin roof above the bathroom?

After all my panic it really doesn't seem all that cold (yet) and I managed to do my washing without a problem.

Any of you know how to fix a MacBook?

:-)