Is This God's Love And Justice ?

[modeller]

I asked a large group of theists why God killed so many innocent babies and infants in the OT. Here was the answer for the Canaan slaughter .

//God knew that if these Canaanite children were allowed to live, they would spell the undoing of Israel. The killing of the Canaanite children served to prevent assimilation to Canaanite identity.

If we believe, that God’s grace is extended to those who die in infancy or as small children, the death of these children was actually their salvation. We are so wedded to an earthly, naturalistic perspective that we forget that those who die are happy to quit this earth for heaven’s incomparable joy. Therefore, God does these children no wrong in taking their lives.

So whom does God wrong in commanding the destruction of the Canaanites? Not the Canaanite adults, for they were corrupt and deserving of judgement. Not the children, for they inherit eternal life. //

[DJHawkes]

it's along time ago now though, isn't there something more up to date to fret about?

[jim360]

So why not just kill everyone at birth and send them all straight to heaven?

[Old_Geezer]

Right and wrong are defined by humans at present, chances are our definitions, even if we could agree on them, don't survive when you see the larger picture as a deity would.

And you have only the religious elite's word for it that God commanded the slaughter. Chances are it didn't but in anyway. But for sure, death would be a transition to near to God, so wouldn't be the big deal it seems to mortals.

[naomi24]

I don't know which flavour of religion your group favours, but they've taken much of their answer, verbatim, from here:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/slaughter-of-the-canaanites

[keyplus90]

Was American decision to use nukes in Japan right one or wrong one?

[naomi24]

Keyplus, did God command that too?

[Khandro]

modeller; To my mind, you seem to have a simplistic view on what you think God is.

[solvitquick]

I just tried for an answer by phone and post,
But the father, son and holy ghost
Had just caught the last train to the coast!
So no answer there - must be just another man-made lie on which theists survive.
SIQ.

[naomi24]

Khandro, tell us your view.

[jomifl]

Khandro, a simplistic view is all that (the idea of)god merits :o)

[modeller]

Naomi I know , they mentioned several others but the ethos of that one fitted many of the others where God was the main perpetrator.

Another one came up about God burning two of Aaron's sons alive because they had not carried out the ritual of the burnt offering exactly as dictated by God. It was argued that the whole point of rituals is , it is easy to make a mistake , which is a sin and must then be punished . I think the arguement is, it demonstrates how easy it is to sin .

[modeller]

Khandro My simplistic view as you describe it , is that God should be an exemplar. What's yours ?

[vulcan42]

keyplus,right

[LazyGun]

@ Modeller

"If we believe, that God’s grace is extended to those who die in infancy or as small children, the death of these children was actually their salvation. We are so wedded to an earthly, naturalistic perspective that we forget that those who die are happy to quit this earth for heaven’s incomparable joy. Therefore, God does these children no wrong in taking their lives."

Was this a quote from someone, Modeller? If so, it just serves to illustrate why people sometimes describe the christian faith as a kind of "death cult". You have to admire the moral perspective the allows the death of children to be viewed as god "doing them a favour".

[atalanta]

Why bother with birth at all ? Or bodies ? Why not just create souls and fill heaven with them ?
Vastly simpler all round

[modeller]

LG Yes it's a small part of an article that was given to me by a theist who said I shouldn't judge God by man made values and morality, and I should try to see God through a believer's eyes.
If you want to read the whole article click on the one in Naomi's post.

For myself it is beyond my understanding. I've been told I'm spiritually dead
and Khandro says my view of God is too simplistic. I'm waiting for him to expand on that.

[goodlife]

Mod@ //it's along time ago now though, isn't there something more up to date to fret about//

The word grace often used in the King James Version have been buried of new meanings so that their original meaning is lost sight of. Take, for example, the word “grace.” It frequently appears in the Authorized Version. What do you think it means? It means many things today. It may mean beauty of form or manner, pleasing or agreeable quality, good will, mercy, allowance of time, virtue or excellence and even other things.

So what is man grace, went you see
One person dies as a war victim every 102 seconds.
▪ One person is murdered every 61 seconds.
▪ One person commits suicide every 39 seconds.
▪ One person dies in a traffic accident every 26 seconds.
▪ One person dies from hunger-related causes every three seconds.
▪ One child under the age of five dies every three seconds,

And you are in the 21C and still look to man, so you got nothing to offer.

[naomi24]

Goodlife, That looks familiar. You're double copying and pasting now.

Still, good news to all the baddies. Come the end of the world, God isn't going to murder you. Goodlife's changed his mind.

[Hypognosis]

My guess is that, since 'primitive' tribes are more than capable of dreaming up their own god, with the power to split mountains in two or firedown lightning bolts etcetera then, if you're going to convert them to Judeism/Christianity, some demonstration that our God is even mightier and more fearsome than theirs is going to be required.

This mass-murdering, child-killing version seems to have done the trick very effectively for 4000-odd years and it's only recently that we've learned to suffix that description with the word 'psychopath'. Psychos always seem to have (very wordy) lists of reasons why their victims 'had to be destroyed', often constructed in such a way as to highlight their own moral/physical/spiritual 'superiority'.

I think we are all so conditioned to seeing this sort of thing dramatised that we simply don't trust anyone who appears to think they are, somehow, better than us and 'god(s)' fall right into that category. Then again, who would want a 'modest', "I'm okay, you're okay" kind of god?

[modeller]

goodlife //And you are in the 21C and still look to man, so you got nothing to offer. //
That is quite right goodlife God set out hundreds of examples of how we should behave. From stoning a man to death for the crime of picking up a few sticks on the sabbath Numbers 15-32-36 to the slaughter of millions
of innocents. To the coming of Jesus who supported God and all his deeds and added infinite suffering in hell for all non believers.

Congratulations for highlighting some of our present misdeeds!
You are right we have followed the teachings and examples set out in gory detail in the bible . God our Father has taught us well.