Losing Driving License

[Cloverjo]

Can a young driver lose his license by allowing a friend with only a provisional license to drive his car? No alcohol or accident was involved, but the police stopped the provisional driver and checked car and driver details.

[Stephen_G]

Isn't it the case that you've got to have held a clean driving licence for three years, to be supervising someone? The Learner has to display L plates on the car too.

[boxtops]

Was the chap with the licence in the car at the time, supervising the learner? I suspect it's an offence ..... and he should have informed his insurance company that a learner was going to be driving.

[Cloverjo]

I'm not sure if the car owner was supervising, or if he let the car be driven solo. Either way, it doesn't look good for him.

[Hypognosis]

https://www.gov.uk/driving-lessons-who-can-teach-you

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Driving with friends and relatives

You can be fined up to £1,000 and get 3 to 6 penalty points on your provisional licence if you drive without the right supervision.

Anyone you practise your driving with (without paying them) must:

be over 21
be qualified to drive the type of vehicle you want to learn in, eg they must have a manual car licence if they’re supervising you in a manual car
have had their driving licence for 3 years
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Over 21 AND licenced >3 years in this case, Jo?

[ummmm]

I doubt his friend was insured so allowing a friend to drive his car would be the same as driving without insurance, I think.

[EDDIE51]

Was the friend driving without a supervising driver ? were L plates being shown? If the driver was unsupervised then he / she can not have been insured as it would void the insurance even if they had it.
Need more information, was the 'young driver' supervising the provisional licence holder? if so how long since he passed his test?

[Cloverjo]

In this case the car owner is under 21 and passed less than 3 years ago.

However, Ummm, your first post suggests that the provisional license holder gets the punishment not the car owner.

[Cloverjo]

Sorry, it wasn't ummm who's post I was referring to. It was hypognosis.

[EDDIE51]

This all depends on the insurance , if the driver was uninsured and the 'young driver' knew it then an offence of ' aiding and abetting' driving without insurance has been committed . We still need to know if there was a qualified supervising driver. It would also be an offence if the 'young driver' let the friend drive knowing he/she did not have a full licence.

[Cloverjo]

I'm sure there was no qualified supervisor. I'm not sure if the car owner was in the car at the time.
It just seems a bit harsh that he has to retake his test, pay a fine and have points on his (possibly now revoked) license, although I understand the concerns about young male drivers in general.
Anyway, this has just been reported to me by text. I was hoping that the person informing me had misunderstood the punishment and to whom it would apply, but it appears not.
Thanks for your replies.

[Hypognosis]

Hi Jo,

my reading of the gov.uk site is that the person who is driving on the provisional licence receives the fine and/or points on licence if their supervisor fails on the age 21 + >3 years licenced

What I don't know is whether the provisional licence takes fewer points to reach disqualification - that particular page doesn't say and, if I have a copy of the highway code at all, it's years out of date.

[EDDIE51]

As I said , if the young driver KNEW that the friend had no insurance / licence or supervisor then he has committed an offence and will lose his licence until he retakes the test, his insurance will be massively increased as well.

[ummmm]

He must have known that the friend wasn't insured. A driver under 21, insuring a provisional driver, would cost an absolute fortune.

[THECORBYLOON]

If a driver gets six points or more within two years of passing his test, he can be banned. Any points given to the prov licence holder will carry forward to the Full licence if he passes within three years of the offence.

[Cloverjo]

I'm inclined to go with what hypognosis says. I have looked at a few websites listing offences for which a driver can receive points and/ or disqualification and this one is not there, as far as I can see. A provisional driver is not allowed to be supervised by anyone under 21 or who has not had a license for 3 years, but it does seem that the provisional driver is the one committing the offence in that case.
Is there a law against "aiding and abetting" with regard to driving without insurance that can be punished in this way?

[ummmm]

Read Eddie's reply.

[THECORBYLOON]

From the Government's website " Aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring offences

For these offences, the codes are similar [to the driver's offences], but with the number 0 on the code changed to 2.

For example, code LC20 (driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence) becomes code LC22 on your licence if you have helped someone to do this.

Causing or permitting offences

For these offences, the codes are similar[to the driver's offences], but with the number 0 on the code changed to 4.

For example, LC20 (driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence) becomes LC24 on your licence if you’ve caused or permitted someone to do this." This is why you sometimes see on the police programmes an unlicensed driver saying initially that the owner gave permission but changing his mind because the owner would be given points too.

[New Judge]

This is fairly straightforward.

I’m assuming that the owner of the car allowed the provisional licence holder to drive his car solo.

Firstly, the driver. Offences committed by the driver are “driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence” (i.e. with no ‘L’ Plates or supervising driver) and almost certainly driving without insurance. The penalty for No Insurance is a minimum of six penalty points and a fine (and costs and a Victim Surcharge if the matter is dealt with in court). The licence offence will be dealt with by way of a fine but no points will be imposed (only one lot of points - for the most serious offence - are imposed for multiple traffic offences arising from the same incident). TheCorbyLoon is not quite correct. Assuming the minimum number of points are imposed and also assuming the driver has no other points he will not be disqualified. However the “new drivers” regulations say that a driver accumulating six or more points within two years of passing his first driving test will have his licence revoked and he will revert to provisional status. The six points imposed before his test count towards this total but he will not have his licence revoked as soon as he passes his test. Instead any further offence which attracts points will see his licence revoked.

Now the car owner. If he knew the driver was committing the above two offences he is guilty of “allowing” those offences to be committed. The penalties for “allowing” are the same as the substantive offence itself. If he does have six points added to his record and he passed his test less than two years earlier he will have his licence revoked under the “new drivers” rules. If he has other active points and the six take him to twelve or more he will face disqualification under the “totting up” rules.

[Cloverjo]

Ah ok, thank you New Judge.
Its a shame for the lad who has to foot the bills and hassle for all this.

[THECORBYLOON]

NEWJUDGE, I was not suggesting the driver would be banned when he got a Full Licence. The two statements I made were separate and not intended to link.