TV license detectors

[Carol Anne]

Does anyone know whether or not it is true that TV detectors cannot infact detect televisions being watched through a digital tuner? My son is now in second year at uni and has moved into a flat with friends this year. The others refuse to put toward a TV licence becuase thay reckon that because they use a Freeview box and a monitor set that has no tuner of it's own it is undetectable by inspectors because the Freeview box  does not emit the signal produced by an ordinary TV. I'm concerned that my son may get into bother as his name is on the lease but the TV is not his, but he is willing to pay his share as he had his own license last year. Anyone know for sure if the set up they have is detectable? Im such a worrier that I'll probably end up paying for the license myself.

[carlos]

For more info follow this link  http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp#link1 which says the following - If you use a TV or any other device to receive or record TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD recorder or PC with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence. You are required by law to have one. As far as I understand it the licence is for the ownership of a device able to recieve and view/record a broadcasted signal. Monitors used to view the programmes fall into this catagory.

[carlos]

Right - Better answer - Just done a bit of searching and this is what I found. The detector van picks up the signal leaked from the 'local oscillator'. These are present in both the TVs tuner, and the freeview boxes tuner. It seems that it's not the Cathode Ray Tube that the detector picks up, but the frequency leaked from the LO. From this they can tell if you're receiving a broadcasted signal, and depending on the frequency, which channel you're receiving. So, unless i'm wrong, their set up will be detectable.

[jake-the-peg]

Whilst what carlos says is true I think that in the vast majority of cases they just assume that everybody has a TV and if they have an address without a license they start sending letters saying that you have been detected using a TV without a license and that they'll prosecute if you don't get one. They'll probably send a few further letters and possibly somebody to bang on the door.

TV detector vans are a lot more expensive than databases and letters

[stoo_pid]

I'm afraid I can't tell you whether the equipment can be detected but I would expect so.  If it helps though I can advise what is likely to happen if they choose not to get a licence. 

They should receive at least one letter reminding them they need to have a licence if they want to watch TV.  If they don't pay for one then at some point someone is likely to knock on the door & ask if they have a TV on the premises.  If they answer "Yes" but can produce no licence they'll get fined (and will also have to prove they have a licence if they wish to continue watching the TV). 

If they answer "No" & the TV licence person believes them, he or she will go away & they'll hear no more for a while.  If they don't believe them (which is almost certain) they will go away & come back unannounced to try & catch them watching TV.  If they're successful (which they usually are) they'll issue a bigger fine.

[Ralph]

Just to counter what jake-the-peg said, when I was in 2nd year at uni, I had a small 1 roomed flat at the back of the first floor of a largish converted semi-d house. One day, I got a letter from the TV licensing people saying that they knew I DIDN'T have a telly (I didn't) but should I get one, I'd need a license to watch it. I was the only one in the building that didn't have a tv, so I can only assume that the detector van came around and was able to pick out which rooms did and did not have a telly.

[Tim B]

To clarify 'How they know.'  When a new TV/video etc is sold the retailer has a legal obligation to inform the licensing authorities of the purchaser's name and address.  He has a specially printed sheet to complete for each transaction.

All local oscillators emit radio waves, satellite dishes have an 'LNB' (low noise block) which has a frequency converter in it, this contains the first L.O.  The freeview box then has another in it to again downshift the signal frequency to one which can be decoded by either the box or the TV.  The TV (if not using SCART connections) then has another LO.  It poses the question if a DVD player is connected to a TV via SCART is it detectable or, even, is it still an offence?

[Carol Anne]

Thanks everyone for the information. Personally I would always pay than worry about the variables, but my son now tells me that they're about to have the cable tv connected also, and that the other lad in the flat insists that no-one will find out about that either. Apparently a relative of his who works at NTL told him that unlike retailers, the cable company is prevented by the data protection act from disclosing it's customer list to the licensing authorities ! They've also now come up political clap trap about the BBC as

[Carol Anne]

some kind of moral justification for not paying. I give up.

[tomd]

It seems they would be more likely to get caught if they have cable installed, it's a little more insubtle than receiving public broadcast. I don't think there is a moral justification for not paying, unless you don't have a tv.

They will get a few warning letters first though, as do most student homes without a tv licence (regardless of whether they have a tv or not.)

[BetsyLou]

Don't pay the fine for him if they get caught! The flatmate sounds like an idiot.

[jake-the-peg]

Ralph's experience is interseting. Whilst sales of TVs have to be registerred to an address it can't be kept up to date and a number of friends of mine who do not have televisons have received threatening letters.

Given that there are a lot of adverts right now about students and TV licenses and that University Terms are starting it sounds to me as somebody has identified students as likely non payers and that student accomodation may be being singled out for detection at the start of the accademic year along with the advertising campaign. 

this would imply that you're much more likely to get done for non-payment if you're a student. 

[Coobeastie]

Can't be sure but certain that the Data Protection Act allows for authorities to gain this type of information if it is relevant. Wonder if the NTL relative actually works on this side of things or just fits the boxes.

[romko]

Without a search warant the TV people can NOT legally enter your home - so tell your lad NOT to invite them in ever, or confess to anything, and just to shut the door.

My position on all this has always been: if their TV signal comes onto my property, without my permission, then i will do what the hell i like with it -if they don't want me to  'watch' it on equipment I have paid for, they ought to scramble it. This is the case in most civilised countries on earth, but not it seems in Britain, where the individual is 'owned and operated' by corporations of some kind or another.

*rant off* !!