speed camera offence

[dollar]

i have now accumulated 12points of speedingfines, been flashed four times in the last 3 years, all in 30mph roads doing at 44, 41, 39, 36mph; i understand i am now liable to be banned from driving b/c of the 12 points when my case comes to court, but for how long would i be banned? i have had a perfect driving record until the first offence 2 years ago. please inform.

[gary baldy]

You will not automatically be banned. If you can prove you will suffer hardship because of a ban you can avoid it (dont get your hopes up - it is still quite rare). Because it is 'totting up' and not one single bannable offence (eg DD) the ban could be quite short but that will depend on the magistrates. Plead poverty and tell them about your previous good record , get a letter from your employer (if you have one) saying your job could be on the line if you get banned - be nice and polite and humble (can you afford a lawyer?).
The shortest possible ban is a week but expect anything up to six months.

[undercovers]

6 months to a year would be my guess - the magistrates generally won't look to kindly on this as they see each previous fine a second chance, so you will turn up asking for a 6th chance in their eyes, the fact that this has all happened over the past two years is unlikely to affect their decisions i would guess... but then again it all comes down to how they are feeling on the day - click here for a useful link

[undercovers]

sorry didn't mean up to a year, forgot what i was doing, 6 months max is what i meant sorry

[dollar]

thank you v much for the answers received; now getting idea in understanding how the system works. i have a couple more related questions pls:

how much of monetary fines can i expect to have to pay after judgement is passed, ie court charges etc?

assuming a small ban, one wk up to 6 months, will they take my driving licence away, and if so do i get it back automatically after the ban period is over or is there any risk that i have to resit the driving test again?

[hopalong]

Sorry, but speed limits are there for a reason. You have been caught 4 times if you didn't learn your lesson first time round then you deserve all you get doing 44 in a 30 is madness. You say you had the perfect driving record untill your first fine 2 years ago. Or was that the first time you where finally caught? Are any of your points spent yet?

[tigga]

I am assuming you passed your test before 1st june 1997 when the 'new drivers act' came into place, in which case you wont have to resit your test. I think this is only optional if disq' for 2yrs or dr/dr, or dang'/dr.

You will most likely be made to go to court in person (you have to when a disq is on the cards) therefore the fine will be larger than the fixed pen, aywhere from �60 to �400 or even more on a bad day, costs will be about �35 per hearing so try to take everything they ask for and get it dealt with in one go.

As for the exceptional hardship case, the letter from your employer must state that you will definitely lose your job, on top of this you also have to prove that being unemployed will cause the hardship (for the simple reson, plenty of people get by on the dole !).

[JudgeJ]

Sorry, dollar, but gary baldy has given you false hope by suggesting (a) that you will not be automatically banned and (b) that a short ban could be imposed. The minimum ban to be imposed by magistrates in the event of “totting” is six months. They must impose this minimum ban unless “special reasons” can be established. There is no maximum ban to restrict magistrates’ sentencing powers for any driving offence (including "totting"). However, it would be unusual for them to depart from the minimum six months for the series of offence that you describe.

To plead special reasons you would be well advised to seek the help of a solicitor (you will not be entitled to legal aid). The reasons already mentioned, such as loss of employment, are not usually sufficient. Magistrates generally take the view that anyone whose job depends on his holding a licence to drive should be even more careful. “Special reasons” pleas are rarely successful and have to be carefully framed and presented if they are to have any chance of success.

As far as fines and costs go, you will probably be fined somewhere in the region of one week's net wages, with a third off if you plead guilty. You will also have to pay prosecution costs of between �35 and �50.

Assuming you receive a ban of six months your licence will be retained by the court and is, effectively, revoked. You will have to apply to the DVLA for a new one towards the end of your ban and must not, of course, drive until your ban is ended and you have received your new licence.

Sorry to be the harbinger of somewhat bad news, but the "totting" legislation was framed precisely to cater for the situation in which you have found yourself.

[tigga]

I have to disagree judgej, if only down to wording, you say gary baldy was wrong to state: he will not automatically be banned. then you go on to say it would be unusual.

And can i ask - does some of this legislation differ across the nations counties ?.

I only ask as how can he not be entitled to legal aid when some leeds footballers who assaulted a guy (racially motivated) did get legal aid ?.

[gary baldy]

I concur with my learned friend JudgeJ - he obviously knows more about it than i do.
I was only banned for a week and got a �40 fine but my case was slightly different - i was doing over 100 on the motorway which qualifies as dangerous driving.
The magistrates were very lenient with me for the reasons i outlined in my previous post - i was just presuming the same would apply with totting up.
I would take JudgeJ's word over mine though.

[tigga]

I totted up and was not disqualified.

[JuliaSix]

Your personal circumstances wil be taken into account, but you may not be excused.

[Boxedin]

I am not sure that it is quite as standard as Judged suggests - you might look at the AA website on speeding (http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/legal/driving_licence.html

At one time the AA used to give free legal advice and, on occasion, provide a solicitor. In my case (although it was over 10 years ago) my employer's letter explained that if I were banned it would cause substantial hardship to others t so the ban only lasted 30minutes (I then changed my car for one that felt/sounded its speed).

[LeMarchand]

Can I ask 2 questions?

1) How many years had you been driving before the "2 years ago" that you had a clean license up until?

2) Did you buy a BMW 2 years ago? ;o)

[Toureman]

You seem to be learning something as the speeds you were caught doing over the three years did get slower after each fine and points but you have still not learnt the lesson yet.

Now you go on to the next stage and lose your licence, perhaps over the next three years they might drop a bit more before you get your next ban!

Don,t excpect other motorists to sympathise with you.

[dollar]

okay folks, especially gary baldi, undercovers,tigga, judgej,julia 6, boxedin, thanks for all your comments, all very helpful, others i am afraid not helpful at all. these are my conclusions:

i now expect a ban 3 upto six months,

fine about 500 pounds in toll,

dont expect to have to resit the driving test

to answer le marchand your question, i have been driving for 22 years without a single dent on my driving record until two years that is, enjoyed full ncb, no i did not get a bmw in the past two years, driving same car 1.5 litre for the past 5 years from new.

thanks again, folks, i will get back if i have more questions before my hearing and will let you all know of the final outcome after my hearing.

[hopalong]

Dollar, my comments where not meant to be helpful. You bloke the speed limit FOUR times what do you expect. If you or a loved one was run over by an idiot doing 44hmp in a 30 zone how would you react? I just hope now you will stick the limit

[JudgeJ]

Just to clear up a few points.

Firstly, tigga, the ban is automatic unless special reasons are pleaded and accepted. My statement referring to “unusual” referred to the fact that it would be unusual if the justices departed from the minimum six months ban (i.e. they imposed more than 6 months). The legislation applies throughout England and Wales.

As regards legal aid, it is not granted for any motoring offence unless that offence is imprisonable – which very few are. The Leeds footballers to whom you refer were charged with serious imprisonable offences.

Gary baldy was obviously disqualified for the single speeding offence alone, and not for “totting”. Magistrates have the power to impose disqualification for any single motoring offence which carries an endorsement. Disqualification is always a consideration for speeds in excess of 100mph (in a 70 limit). As gary found out though, such disqualifications are usually short. No points are added in these cases (you cannot have points added and be banned for the same offence, unless that offence makes you liable to "totting").

Finally, the AA site which boxedin kindly provided confirms what I have said. Special reasons have to prove exceptional hardship. The question of whether loss of employment would constitute exceptional hardship will depend, among other things, on the likliehood of other employment being available. The decision on these matters rests entirely with the sentencing magistrates and decisions may seem to vary across the country.