Power Of Attorney

[Kiki-frog]

My lovely mum-in-law is in the early stages of dementia, and my OH's younger brother apparently has taken power of attorney over her affairs, but without telling his two older brothers. He lives geographically the closest to her, and in all fairness he has done the most in terms of sorting out carers, social services, etc., and we're very grateful to him for doing that.

However, the Power of Attorney thing was done without consulting either of his brothers, and when I was in that situation myself with my mum the solicitor was insistent that other siblings should be consulted, and talking to other people in the same situation, it appears that it is generally the case that PoA should not be granted without consent from the closest family members.

We're just a little bit concerned that my mum-in-law is being told what she can and can not spend her money on, and younger bro-in-law is getting a bit too controlling. Nothing sinister, we hope, but we're starting to wonder...

So my question is, to what extent do immediate family members need to be consulted when requesting Power of Attorney?

Can anyone advise, please?

[bednobs]

no. you cant "take" power of attorney, it has to be "given". Your mother in law obviously gave it to him

[Kiki-frog]

Um, ok, there's a bit of a semantic issue going on, bednobs. Take/give terminology is not relevant, my mistake. Sorry if I'm being thick here. The question is who should be consulted legally in PoA issues when there are three siblings. Can one assume PoA without the others' consent? Thanks

[bednobs]

my semantics were important though - POA has to be given by the donor, your brother in law could not have assumed it, you MIL must have given it to him and as such it;s completely up to her who she tells

[woofgang]

There is no need for the donor of POA to consult anybody else and often there are reasons why the donor wishes to keep the whole thing completely private. Provided the donor has mental capacity to make a decision about who they wish to give POA to then that's that. The POA can be completed online and doesn't even need a solicitor IIRC

[Kiki-frog]

OK, thanks bednobs and woolfgang, that's much appreciated. So, as I understand it, anyone can give/grant/whatever PoI to anyone they like, and family members do not have to be consulted. And PoI can be completed online without a solicitor.... wow. Interesting, but very, very disturbing. Thanks

[Boto]

I know a few people who have POA over relatives’ affairs. None have required consent from closest, or any, family members.

[woofgang]

not sure why its disturbing? My affairs are my business.

[hc4361]

The question is why did your solicitor insist that your siblings be consulted when it is both not necessary and a total breach of confidence?

[bednobs]

the donor has to have a "certificate giver" which is (usually) a professional person to say that they had the capacity to make that decision at that time. it might be a GP or a solicitor. the POA cannot be registered with the court of protection without it, and cannot be used unless registered at the COP. Although dementia does cloud the issue somewhat, it doesn't preclude you from making decision if you have the ability to (which may vary from day to day) see here about being the certificate giver https://www.scottrowe.co.uk/cms/document/a_Certificate_Provider_under_a_Lasting_Power_of_Attorney.pdf If your BIL has POA, the certificate giver must have seen her and determined she had the capacity to do so. it's not dodgy, your BIL hasnt done anything wrong, your MIL simply probably didnt want nosey relatives to interfere

[bednobs]

ps as i recall there is space on the form for the donor to specify if they want anyone else notified when the poa is registered - so if he had wanted to she could put your names there

[woofgang]

the certificate provider need not have any health or law qualification. A "knowledge based" certificate provider is simply someone who has known the donor well for at least two years....so could be a close friend or neighbour for instance and can confirm that they know what they are doing.

[woofgang]

bedknobs there is, its called persons to be notified.

[Hymie]

If I remember correctly, when I became the sole attorney for my late mother’s affairs there was no requirement to notify other family members on condition that you had two others signing the form.

My brother had no interest in our mother, but out of courtesy I notified him of my intension to be her sole attorney (on both LPA’s), and that I would notify him if I ever used the power of attorney in her affairs – although I was under no legal obligation to do so, having completed the forms with two others signing.

[woofgang]

Hymie, did you get your mother's permission?

[Hymie]

Of course

[Hymie]

My mother had to complete/sign the forms

[hc4361]

Woofgang, Hymie's mother would have had to get his permission to give him PoA, not the other way round.

[woofgang]

indeed hc but that doesn't mean that she knew that he had consulted his brother

[emmie]

it is usually discussed in depth with other family members. When my brother had to deal with my mothers illness, dementia being a part of it, he called us all and said what do we think and were we ok with him taking on the Power of Attorney. I would have a word with all the family, seems like he's taken things into his own hands and that's not right at all.

[emmie]

my mother wasn't of sound enough mind to give POA.
so we decided that my brother would be best served to take on that role.