News1 min ago
Boundry fence question
The house i live in used to belong to a housing association but i purchased it for cash some 5 years ago, the boundary between my property and my neighbours is my responsibilty to maintain but the fence on this boundery was erected by my neighbour while my house was still in the ownership of the housing association, the association did however give an amount of money to my neighbour ( im not sure how much) to help toward the cost of the fence...... Can anyone advise me who now owns the fence , it is built ON the boundary and not on his side of the boundary.
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I'd have thought that whoever owns the boundary owns the physical feature marking it.
If it's exactly on the boundary, what is your reasoning for asking? Do you want to change the boundary or attach something to it?
It may be easier to advise if the context is known.
Try and avoid a neighbour dispute though.
If it's exactly on the boundary, what is your reasoning for asking? Do you want to change the boundary or attach something to it?
It may be easier to advise if the context is known.
Try and avoid a neighbour dispute though.
Sadly there is already a neighbour dispute, not of my making i hasten to add...
The reason i ask is that the neighbour in question is demanding we replace fencing at the front of the property which we are reluctant to do at the present time due to there being a problem with our front path and the affor mentioned fencing " sliding" toward his property because he has excavated soil from his garden and made ours unstable ... its a long story!
I just wanted to know if we do in fact " own" the back fence for future reference .... I anticipate problems im afraid.
The reason i ask is that the neighbour in question is demanding we replace fencing at the front of the property which we are reluctant to do at the present time due to there being a problem with our front path and the affor mentioned fencing " sliding" toward his property because he has excavated soil from his garden and made ours unstable ... its a long story!
I just wanted to know if we do in fact " own" the back fence for future reference .... I anticipate problems im afraid.
So is he to the side of your property?
What is his problem with the fencing at the front? Is it road facing rather than adjoining his land or do you mean the fence at the front of your property adjoining his boundary as opposed to a garden fence at the rear?
I take it you don't want to change the boundary until you have sorted the problem with your path.
Is it the fencing at the back of the property (between his garden and yours) that is sliding due to his excavations?
What is his problem with the fencing at the front? Is it road facing rather than adjoining his land or do you mean the fence at the front of your property adjoining his boundary as opposed to a garden fence at the rear?
I take it you don't want to change the boundary until you have sorted the problem with your path.
Is it the fencing at the back of the property (between his garden and yours) that is sliding due to his excavations?
Just a thought but if your property is in a row of housing association properties (even if you bought yours) make sure you check the title documents in case there are any restrictions on what you can do or obligations relating to issues such as the fencing.
If there is something in the deeds at least you can act accordingly in case he approaches the housing association to try and enforce anything.
If there is something in the deeds at least you can act accordingly in case he approaches the housing association to try and enforce anything.
if he has caused your fence to fall down then YOU can make him repair / replace if hes broken it. contact a solictor and get him to send a legal letter to your neighbour, stating where you stand legally and what you intend to do if he does not put it back to its original state.
and check with the H.A. if he's aloud to be digging up the garden path causing the damage he has. sometimes just making the H.A aware is enough to make things right again
and check with the H.A. if he's aloud to be digging up the garden path causing the damage he has. sometimes just making the H.A aware is enough to make things right again
Thanks for you replies, there are a few points i need to add which have been flagged up by your aswers...
1, Our former landlords, the housing association do not have any interest in my property as the 3 year " tether" to them has expired, almost all the houses are now private save the odd few.
2. My neighbour has never lived in his property as a tenant, he has always lived there as the owner so the Housing association have no interest in his property either.
3. the fence in question runs the entire way from front to back between the two properties , when i mention the front garden fence it is the continuation of the property boundary past the gate to the rear of the property .... clear as mud ?
4. My neighbour erected the rear part of the fence some years ago when we were still tenants, he did have some financial recompence from our landlords , i think this equated to what it would have cost them to erect a post and wire fence which is all they would supply.
5. The part of the fence from the gate to the front of the property has never been replaced, it is just post and wire and does need to be replaced but obviously i am unwilling to do this while the garden is on the move!... But thats another issue which we will be dealing with.
In essence , i just really need to know if we want to paint the rear fence or even replace it at anytime ( some of the panels are showing signs of age) do we have the right to do so.... this neighbour is very obnoxious to the point where we are unable to approach him for anything.
Also he built a deck area last summer which he has attached to the fence posts ie: drilled through them and bolted it to the post...... where do we stand if we need to replace those posts or even wanted to put in a higher fence ?
1, Our former landlords, the housing association do not have any interest in my property as the 3 year " tether" to them has expired, almost all the houses are now private save the odd few.
2. My neighbour has never lived in his property as a tenant, he has always lived there as the owner so the Housing association have no interest in his property either.
3. the fence in question runs the entire way from front to back between the two properties , when i mention the front garden fence it is the continuation of the property boundary past the gate to the rear of the property .... clear as mud ?
4. My neighbour erected the rear part of the fence some years ago when we were still tenants, he did have some financial recompence from our landlords , i think this equated to what it would have cost them to erect a post and wire fence which is all they would supply.
5. The part of the fence from the gate to the front of the property has never been replaced, it is just post and wire and does need to be replaced but obviously i am unwilling to do this while the garden is on the move!... But thats another issue which we will be dealing with.
In essence , i just really need to know if we want to paint the rear fence or even replace it at anytime ( some of the panels are showing signs of age) do we have the right to do so.... this neighbour is very obnoxious to the point where we are unable to approach him for anything.
Also he built a deck area last summer which he has attached to the fence posts ie: drilled through them and bolted it to the post...... where do we stand if we need to replace those posts or even wanted to put in a higher fence ?
This link to a Practice Guide published by the Land Registry regarding boundaries may help you to understand the issue here, and the potential for expensive conflict.
http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/assets/library /documents/public_guide_019.pdf
The summary is that, in most cases boundaries are recorded by the Land Registry as what are called 'general boundaries'. It is possible, but it costs money, to have 'exact boundaries' determined.
Land Registry title plans in some cases (and it sounds like you have this) show the boundary line marked with a T to show which side owns and hence maintains the fences that are so often erected on more modern estate developments. But that is the original fence - and nothing prevents changing of this fence or indeed the erection of another fence by the 'non-owner' adjacent to the original, on the 'non-owner's' side.
What you seem to be saying is that the 'non-owner' changed the fence but put the new fence on the line of the original. How many square metres of land are we talking here? - perhaps 10cm wide strip times the length of the garden?
I think that the Housing Association weakened your position by forking out money to the neighbour - irrespective of what the title plan appears to show - you are going to have to demonstrate the 'exact boundary' as above, to get anywhere with this.
Wouldn't it be better to just put your own fence up, slap bang against the existing fence and have done with it.?
http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/assets/library /documents/public_guide_019.pdf
The summary is that, in most cases boundaries are recorded by the Land Registry as what are called 'general boundaries'. It is possible, but it costs money, to have 'exact boundaries' determined.
Land Registry title plans in some cases (and it sounds like you have this) show the boundary line marked with a T to show which side owns and hence maintains the fences that are so often erected on more modern estate developments. But that is the original fence - and nothing prevents changing of this fence or indeed the erection of another fence by the 'non-owner' adjacent to the original, on the 'non-owner's' side.
What you seem to be saying is that the 'non-owner' changed the fence but put the new fence on the line of the original. How many square metres of land are we talking here? - perhaps 10cm wide strip times the length of the garden?
I think that the Housing Association weakened your position by forking out money to the neighbour - irrespective of what the title plan appears to show - you are going to have to demonstrate the 'exact boundary' as above, to get anywhere with this.
Wouldn't it be better to just put your own fence up, slap bang against the existing fence and have done with it.?
Hi , Thanks for your advice, much appreciated...
But there is no boundary dispute going on , its a plain and simple query as to my rights to maintain this fence, i dont really want to go to the expense of putting a whole new fence along side the original, the fence is roughly 170 feet long it seems ridiculous and wasteful to redo the whole thing when all i want is to be safe in the knowledge that i can repair and maintain the original without incuring the wrath of my neighbour.... :(
But there is no boundary dispute going on , its a plain and simple query as to my rights to maintain this fence, i dont really want to go to the expense of putting a whole new fence along side the original, the fence is roughly 170 feet long it seems ridiculous and wasteful to redo the whole thing when all i want is to be safe in the knowledge that i can repair and maintain the original without incuring the wrath of my neighbour.... :(
I appreciate that - all I am saying is that I reckon it is impossible to determine who owns it without determining the 'exact boundary' using the Land Registry process. And unless you want the expense of doing that.
Here's the dilemna:
1) The fence is owned by the person whose land it sits on. 2) A landowner make try and make a claim for land under Adverse Possession after around 12 years of ownership (alright Jenna - I know its a bit more complicated since 2002 when the law changed).
3) Your neighbour has apparently been sitting on this land and its fence for X years.
4) The former owner of the land under the fence (HA) paid the neighbour a sum of money at the time the plot was transferred to you.
4 statements that appear to be true, and make it impossible to sort out (without the use of expertrts or courts) who now owns what.
Any observations, Jenna?
Here's the dilemna:
1) The fence is owned by the person whose land it sits on. 2) A landowner make try and make a claim for land under Adverse Possession after around 12 years of ownership (alright Jenna - I know its a bit more complicated since 2002 when the law changed).
3) Your neighbour has apparently been sitting on this land and its fence for X years.
4) The former owner of the land under the fence (HA) paid the neighbour a sum of money at the time the plot was transferred to you.
4 statements that appear to be true, and make it impossible to sort out (without the use of expertrts or courts) who now owns what.
Any observations, Jenna?
ok... i see, nothing is ever simple eh !
re: the HA paying an amount to the neighbour toward the erection of the fence....
I do believe that they had to seek approval from the HA when they wanted to erect this fence , they requested help toward the cost of the fence and the HA gave them a payment which would have covered the cost of a post a wire fence which is what they use to divide boundaries apparently, they then told my neighbour if he wished to erect any thing other than post and wire they could do so at their own expense.....
Im sorry this is so long winded.
re: the HA paying an amount to the neighbour toward the erection of the fence....
I do believe that they had to seek approval from the HA when they wanted to erect this fence , they requested help toward the cost of the fence and the HA gave them a payment which would have covered the cost of a post a wire fence which is what they use to divide boundaries apparently, they then told my neighbour if he wished to erect any thing other than post and wire they could do so at their own expense.....
Im sorry this is so long winded.
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