Advice needed ASAP!!!

[JayScott]

I am a manager of a pub and recently I had to ask someone to leave my pub using suitable force. While doing this the person I was getting to leave tried to punch me so I pushed him in self defence. He then stumbled backwards tripped and bannged his head knocking himself unconcious. Since then has attended hospital.

I was wondering if I can get into trouble in anyway??

[MarkRae]

Jay, first things first. This is a general question and answer site, not a specialised legal hotline. First thing on Monday morning, go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau and ask them for help. They will put you in touch with professional legal personnel.

That said, has the person in question made any legal complaint against you? And, possibly most importantly, were there any witnesses?

[rozia]

you done nothing wrong, were there any witnesses? i would have done the same as what you did, if he tried to punch me, i would have have kicked him in, not just pushed him......if he decides to report it to the cops, then you should get away with self defence

[MarkRae]

Are you a lawyer, rozia...?

[rozia]

Mark I wish......, but its happened to my friend, he tried to kick some yobs out of his newsagents, and one of em tripped over and hurt his head, reported it to the police etc, but he got away with it, witnesses saw the whole thing, and it was in the shop keepers favour...landlords and shopkeepers always get beaten up, had jay not pushed him, then jay would have had a black eye if not worse

[ELVIS68]

Good on you Jay, chances are this pudding will not darken your door ever again.

I've yet to hear of a pub manager getting done for assault

[Buenchico]

I've seen the words 'self defence' used here countless times by people who are seeking to avoid conviction for an assault charge. On nearly every occasion I've posted to tell them that they're wasting their time. However your account of the events strongly suggests that you've got a legitimate defence against any possible assault charge (which is unlikely anyway).

Simply pushing someone who is about to assault you (or who you genuinely believe is likely to do so) would normally be regarded as a legitimate form of self defence. The fact that they subsequently suffered injury (as a result of the push) would be regarded as irrelevant unless you could reasonably foresee such injury occurring (and you had an alternative method of defending yourself at your disposal).
[For example pushing someone off a railway station platform, into the path of a passing train, might well be regarded as 'excessive force' unless it could be proven that no alternative was available.]

I've 'escorted' many people off licensed premises, with varying degrees of force, including a few occasions when injury has occurred to the other party. At no time have I have ever been questioned or charged in relation to any (alleged) assault. I doubt that you've got anything to worry about.

Chris

PS: One of the people I 'escorted' off the premises went on to murder three people only a few weeks later. Use Google to learn about Jason Mitchell and the Bramford murders for further information!

[shoota]

I think that the expression is 'reasonable force' not 'suitable force' and if the amount of force you used was reasonable in the circumstances, you had required him to leave and he failed to do so, then there should not be a problem.
Presumably he was intoxicated (?) which led to him being unsteady on his feet and contributed to him falling over?
If on the other hand he weighed 6 stone and you were throwing him about like a doll then you may have a problem.

[JayScott]

Just to clear a few things up:

Yes he was drunk and yes there were people around who saw everything. What I didnt mention was that after he hit his head I went to check he was ok as I am a first aider. While doing this the injured man's friend decided to jump me from behind. This is being dealt with as it should.

What I am concerned about is that I am hearing stories now that the injured man has suffered swelling of the brain. This is why I asked the question in the forst place.

I just dont know where I stand?

[MarkRae]

> I just dont know where I stand?

With respect, Jay, this isn't the place to answer that. Do as I have suggested and get professional legal advice.

[ELVIS68]

No difference, you're not to blame

[shoota]

Its impossible to give anything other than a general opinion under these circumstances but you should take steps to guard against the worst scenario:
make sure the incident is recorded/reported to the people responsible for the pub, keep a record of all witnesses and their contact details, preserve any CCTV that may exist and consider making an allegation of assault against this person (if the punch didn't land that would probably only be common assault).

[trt]

Jay,
I assume from your post you are not in the LVA or a Public House Managers Union which you should have been.

I have run pubs for 30 years in the past and have had many problems with drunken/violent and abusive customers against myself and staff.

Firstly, has the person made any accusations or complaints to the police about you about the incident and what injuries did he suffer apart from being unconscious?

Was he drunk, abusive or violent to you or the staff?

Have you got any customers/staff as witnesses, or CTR cameras?

Is he a local in the area with a history of causing trouble, most are?

The only problems these days Jay, to when I was a landlord is that the courts are to soft and all this bloody human rights law and allowing the drunken public to sue for injury even though they committed the crime and botox to the business people who are trying to earn a decent living for their family's.

I have been taken to court twice for assault, once in Dover when I was found not guilty and the other in Newmarket when the magistrate threw it out of court and gave my accuser a £150 fine for wasting court time ;-)

If you want any more advice Jay, ask me, as I feel very strongly about the future of pub landlords of today especially with a family, trying to make a decent living in this violent society!

[JayScott]

Trt,

Apart from what I have said about the talk of him having swelling of the brain I dont know if he had any other injurys. Yes he was abbusive towards myself and staff. Yes I have witnesses. I have only been in the town for a matter of weeks so couldnt tell you if he is a known trouble maker. As far as I am aware he has not made any complaint towards me at all. I just dont want a nasty surprise if something does happen. As you will know its not just a job its my life that could be really damaged.

[ELVIS68]

Hi trt, had a run in with a drunken idiot in Newmarket once outside the marquis of granby, couple of locals came out to help and quickly sorted the situation, one of them was a local boxing champ, he put him down with one punch lol

Had a great night after that

Sorry Jay for going off topic

[trt]

Hi ELVIS68,

I know the the landlord of the Marquis of Granby, he was an ex pro jockey and best man to Alex Higgins who was also a fried of mine, which is now closed and the boxer you are talking about, and he is not the type to fight outside of the ring, so the bloke must have pushed his luck!

[CreamSoda]

Maybe if he reports it, but being in a pub you'll have witnesses. If it comes to it give the cops names to back you up. If you do go to the police station get a solicitor, they are free.