Quizzes & Puzzles1 min ago
I've Been Arrested On A Section 18 And Bailed For 2 Month
I work on the doors at a nightclub and a guy was being abusive to my colleague, my colleague told him to go away even pushed him away and the guy kept being abusive, my colleague walked away to sort out something else. The lad then came to me and I told him to go away and he kept being abusive towards to and then stepped in towards me face to face so I pushed him away and told him to go away he abused me again and came forward towards me again so I pushed him away from me and then to the side away from the club and he fell on the floor and hit his head, apparently the guy has a fractured or broken vertebrae. The CCTV shows I only pushed him but it's not really good quality, but he and his witness' are saying I grabbed him by the neck and threw him on the floor. This is my very first offence and in all honesty I'm scared of the outcome. If this goes to court and for some reason I'm found guilty, what would happen?!
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Hi Crvn, I know its difficult, but if you can try and research the section 18 charge as much as you can. Find yourself a solicitor asap (if you haven't already) and they will advise of the possible outcomes. If it is your first offence and you 100% know that you did not cause GBH with intent, stick to your guns. If you can, ask your boss, the other doorman working that night and anyone of a professional level to write a brief character reference, it may help in your defence (again, your solicitor will advise this). Did anyone else witness that you didn't do what the prosecution are saying? Could they write this down for you? If you are advised by your solicitor to plead not guilty, Gather evidence, get back-up and the more the better (did anyone have a camera phone? Would another local shop/ pub have caught the situation on their CCTV? Did the other staff at the bar/ club have difficulty with the guy during the evening - can they write this down for you?)
I don't know what the repercussions would be if found guilty, but would guess that you would lose your security licence, and being your first offence you might get away with a suspended sentence and a fine, but I'm not sure what the prison term might be.
Try not to associate with or go near anyone from the prosecution side, if you see any of the people who are accusing you of this, stay away and keep your cool - even if you feel they are completely wrong, having a shouting match would only add to their evidence against you. Lastly, dress smart for court, keep calm and be 100% honest. Be prepared, and get some support from your family or friends on the day. as there will be a lot of waiting around. best of luck.
I don't know what the repercussions would be if found guilty, but would guess that you would lose your security licence, and being your first offence you might get away with a suspended sentence and a fine, but I'm not sure what the prison term might be.
Try not to associate with or go near anyone from the prosecution side, if you see any of the people who are accusing you of this, stay away and keep your cool - even if you feel they are completely wrong, having a shouting match would only add to their evidence against you. Lastly, dress smart for court, keep calm and be 100% honest. Be prepared, and get some support from your family or friends on the day. as there will be a lot of waiting around. best of luck.
Additional - Crvn, is there anything from your doorman training that would be of use to you here? What would the 'governing body' or licencing or training guidelines be for a situation where a customer is in your face like on that night? Would the actions that you took match what you were trained to do? Can you prove that your reaction was in accordance with these guidelines? This might help, just a thought.
Thanks for the quick response, I've not been charged with section 18 only arrested for it ATM! When I was giving my statement I told the police everything, they said that one of his friends said I grabbed his neck and threw him to the ground, he said the same and another friend said I grabbed his neck and picked him up and threw him, none of the above mention any of the first two pushes. Also the CCTV the police showed me had been tampered with it seemed, you cannot see the guy abusing my colleague for about 5 minutes prior to what happened, I'm going to seek legal advice this morning. I have plenty of very represent able people who can write me good character references such as company owners, nurses and possibly an ex police officer. So we will see who I can get in touch for a character reference. Also I'm to be understood that the police arrest you on the highest charge they think possible but usually CPS drop it to what they think they can get a prosecution with? As I said I'm not charged with this as of yet, just arrested on it, but I haven't been able to sleep or eat since, I'm terrified of what could potentially happen. Also when the guy woke up when my colleague was trying to wake him my colleague opened his eyes and he was responsive and smiled and laughed and stood up laughing asked for his glasses and walked off however when he walked off he wasn't laughing (what you can see on the CCTV) also doormen usually use a manoeuvre known as contact and cover, where a doorman will stand infront of you to break eye contact and quell hostilities, however when my colleagues moved away to deal with something else I was on my own, so when the guy came towards me the first time in my face I pushed him away told him to go away and retreated in my doorway to try and break eye contact to possibly calm the situation but he came back towards me that's when I pushed him two more times. I literally can't eat or sleep I'm petrified of what can happen, and it's opening my eyes to the fact - my job isn't worth actually doing if these possibilities happen, I've been working as a doorman for around about 4 years now too
Hi crvn, write everything you can down about the events of the evening now, whilst it is fresh. Your own account. Make it concise i.e bullet points and 100% accurate from your memory. Take it with you to your solicitor to use as your statement of facts.
When you were bailed, did the police mention when you would be contacted or what the next steps would be? Have they sent through any correspondance? (again take this to your Sol).
I know you don't want to hear this but of course you will be scared, if you have never been accused of anything before it can be terrifying - talk to someone you trust, ask them to go with you to meet the solicitor as when you are so worried it can be difficult to take in evrything they tell you during the intitial meeting.
Don't lose heart. If you are sure you did nothing wrong, always have that as your strongest thought and fight as hard as you can to get this situation resolved, make it your first priority.
It's a shame that a job you love has now become something you are wary of. If you get on with your boss, I would suggest arranging a meeting to talk through this - you never know, if he has been in the business for a long time he may have come across this situation himself before? What would they do? Ask him/ her, and talk, nothing will be certain until you are given a final decision either by the police to say they won't press charges, or if they do press charges, a decision by the court - but you can't just stop living until these decisions are made.
off to work now, but wish you all the best with this. I'm sure some of the other AB members will comment on this thread during the day, so please do keep checking back to Answer Bank over the next couple of days. They might be able to help more than me.
When you were bailed, did the police mention when you would be contacted or what the next steps would be? Have they sent through any correspondance? (again take this to your Sol).
I know you don't want to hear this but of course you will be scared, if you have never been accused of anything before it can be terrifying - talk to someone you trust, ask them to go with you to meet the solicitor as when you are so worried it can be difficult to take in evrything they tell you during the intitial meeting.
Don't lose heart. If you are sure you did nothing wrong, always have that as your strongest thought and fight as hard as you can to get this situation resolved, make it your first priority.
It's a shame that a job you love has now become something you are wary of. If you get on with your boss, I would suggest arranging a meeting to talk through this - you never know, if he has been in the business for a long time he may have come across this situation himself before? What would they do? Ask him/ her, and talk, nothing will be certain until you are given a final decision either by the police to say they won't press charges, or if they do press charges, a decision by the court - but you can't just stop living until these decisions are made.
off to work now, but wish you all the best with this. I'm sure some of the other AB members will comment on this thread during the day, so please do keep checking back to Answer Bank over the next couple of days. They might be able to help more than me.
Thanks mark I really appreciate your help, you've been great. When the police contacted the club I work and asked for me I wrote down a personal incident report about EVERYTHING that happened that night in detail. So I'll be taking this to the solicitor when I arrange a meet, still need to phone one in a few hours when they're open and arrange something, I've spoken to my bosses and the owner of the firm and they have been helpful. Think my main priority now is to sort out a solicitor and go from there, I also need to hand I to the police my personal incident report and make sure I get a signed receipt for it so it doesn't go missing. I have two colleagues giving statements one of the guy when he was abusing him, and another when my other colleague came outside and the guy was on the floor and woke up - not one of his friends where complaining or anything they where thankful that the door staff helped him up. My colleagues never even knew anything happened until he asked what happened to him. So got to prepare everything precise and get to a solicitor ASAP to get the original CCTV footage where it shows the guy abusing and threatening the first colleague I mentioned as it's quite a big part in my defence as the guy was abusive to both of us and just didn't want to go.
It happened at 1:30 New Year's Eve... So they would of been rather drunk to say the least having being new year. The bad thing is I was on my own and have no witnesses of the actual pushes apart from the CCTV which shows the guy coming face to face to me before i push him away and comes back again. I'm still unsure about what will happen, I only pushed him and his injuries Are that he has spinal problems, however I've checked the guys profile on facebook and seems to be up and about places at work / uni etc... I only know the guys name because the police told me when I gave my statement.
the police have posted in a local paper that they are looking for witnesses to come forward regarding my case, and have said the following;
"Club goers are asked to contact Detectives investigating an allegation of assault by a member of door staff at The Empire Nightclub on Corporation Way in Middlesbrough at around 1.30am on New Years Day.
A man has reported that having attempted to gain entry to the premises, a doorman assaulted him by throwing him to the ground, which resulted in him receiving fractures to the spine."
this whole experience is daunting and i havnt really slept since i was arrested by police / charged and bailed.
"Club goers are asked to contact Detectives investigating an allegation of assault by a member of door staff at The Empire Nightclub on Corporation Way in Middlesbrough at around 1.30am on New Years Day.
A man has reported that having attempted to gain entry to the premises, a doorman assaulted him by throwing him to the ground, which resulted in him receiving fractures to the spine."
this whole experience is daunting and i havnt really slept since i was arrested by police / charged and bailed.
Early days yet. The police will arrest for the most serious offence they think possible. Later, possessed of the full evidence, the CPS will have a lesser, or even no, charge brought. And s18 is serious: the maximum is life imprisonment, though even serious examples don't result in that.
s18 [of the Offences Against the Person Act, 1861] is all about intent. The Prosecution have to prove that you did "unlawfully and maliciously cause grievous bodily harm to any person with intent to do them grievous bodily harm" [there is a similar provision for wounding with intent, but this need not concern us here]
Grievous means 'really serious" which would be satisfied by fractured vertebrae. "Maliciusly" adds nothing to "unlawfully" and "with intent" but our Victorian ancestors were fond of using it, notwithstanding that. :)
Intent is established, not by consequence alone, but by other evidence. That the man was seriously injured [if he was; medical evidence may not show that] does not show that you intended the injury. Obviously, someone who throws a bomb at someone else does intend that, evidenced by the mere act, but that is not the ordinary type of assault. Recklessness, negligence, unforeseen consequence, anything less than the specific intent to do really serious bodily harm, is not sufficient. "You can only decide what his intention was by considering all the relevant circumstances and in particular what he did and what he said about it": the direction to the jury in R v Purcell, approved in the Court of Appeal [ reported at 53 Cr App. R. at page 45 (1969), if you are interested]
It's that which is the difficulty for the prosecution, even on the version that you grabbed the man by the neck and threw him to the floor. In any case, it is quite likely that self-defence is runnable on these facts, in that, without being able to weigh to a nicety what was necessary, you did what you felt instinctively to be necessary and reasonable when under a perceived threat of violence (or to keep the peace and stop violence ).
s18 [of the Offences Against the Person Act, 1861] is all about intent. The Prosecution have to prove that you did "unlawfully and maliciously cause grievous bodily harm to any person with intent to do them grievous bodily harm" [there is a similar provision for wounding with intent, but this need not concern us here]
Grievous means 'really serious" which would be satisfied by fractured vertebrae. "Maliciusly" adds nothing to "unlawfully" and "with intent" but our Victorian ancestors were fond of using it, notwithstanding that. :)
Intent is established, not by consequence alone, but by other evidence. That the man was seriously injured [if he was; medical evidence may not show that] does not show that you intended the injury. Obviously, someone who throws a bomb at someone else does intend that, evidenced by the mere act, but that is not the ordinary type of assault. Recklessness, negligence, unforeseen consequence, anything less than the specific intent to do really serious bodily harm, is not sufficient. "You can only decide what his intention was by considering all the relevant circumstances and in particular what he did and what he said about it": the direction to the jury in R v Purcell, approved in the Court of Appeal [ reported at 53 Cr App. R. at page 45 (1969), if you are interested]
It's that which is the difficulty for the prosecution, even on the version that you grabbed the man by the neck and threw him to the floor. In any case, it is quite likely that self-defence is runnable on these facts, in that, without being able to weigh to a nicety what was necessary, you did what you felt instinctively to be necessary and reasonable when under a perceived threat of violence (or to keep the peace and stop violence ).
Hi Crvn - welcome to Answerbank. Sorry to hear of your problem. Hope eventually everything works out fine for you.
As a door supervisor you will obviously hold a current licence issued by the Security Industry Authority. Does that body have a legal department which might be useful to you?
The SIA may, having viewed any CCTV evidence, be able to point to issues which may be to your benefit.
Good luck.
As a door supervisor you will obviously hold a current licence issued by the Security Industry Authority. Does that body have a legal department which might be useful to you?
The SIA may, having viewed any CCTV evidence, be able to point to issues which may be to your benefit.
Good luck.
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