Are The Police Out Of Control?

[Gromit]

From the Daily Telegraph:

// In the eyes of its natural supporters, the police force is beginning to look and act like a law unto itself?

Even before the shocking possibility opened up this week in the Andrew Mitchell affair – that serving police officers conspired to destroy a Cabinet minister – it was clear that something in the police was wrong.
England has 39 police forces, headed by 39 chief constables or commissioners. In the past 18 months, seven have been sacked for misconduct, suspended, placed under criminal or disciplinary investigation or forced to resign. That is not far off a fifth of the total.
In the same period, at least eight deputy or assistant chief constables have also been placed under ongoing investigation, suspended or forced out for reasons of alleged misconduct. No fewer than 11 English police forces – just under 30 per cent – have had one or more of their top leaders under a cloud. //

Such poor leadership leads to problems throughout the forces. Whether it results in re-employing a thug who had been thrown out such as in the Tomlinson case, or this week, a serving officer lying about who was and giving false evidence to get a Cabinet Minister sacked.

Is it time for a radical rethink of how the Police are run?

[rojash]

I don't think the police now are any worse than before (think about Hillsborough, Miners strike, famous cases of "fitting up").
What has changed is people's willingness to accept there is a problem. In the past, any criticism at all of the police resulted in the reply "we have the best police force in the world" together with the unspoken allegation that the critic was definitely unpatriotic, and probably a criminal, to boot.

[Hymie]

Having complained to the IPCC concerning my local police force – I can advise that indeed the police are a law unto themselves.

In relation to my complaint, the IPCC accepted what my local police force told them as fact, despite being supplied with documentary evidence to the contrary.

[New Judge]

In the 1970s the police were renowned for “fitting up” criminals whom they had very good grounds for believing had committed serious offences but where they were short of evidence that would secure a conviction. Perhaps the most famous (or infamous) case where this was possibly true was that of George Davis. I lived in East London at that time and “knew people who knew people” (including a serving police officer who was subsequently jailed for perjury in an unrelated matter) who led me to believe that Mr Davis had indeed been fitted up. The police were quite certain that he had been involved in serious crimes but it seems unlikely to me that he was guilty of the offence for which he was convicted.

In 1976 PACE (the Police and Criminal Evidence Bill) was introduced and this placed strict rules on police procedures and prosecution practices. It curtailed the ability of police to fit people up. However, developments this week (if they are found to be true) demonstrate that it is not possible to entirely remove the risk of wrongful convictions. Nothing can be done to prevent people - even police officers - lying in statements to the police or later in court.

The worrying thing about the police at present is, as you mention Gromit, misbehaviour (ranging from minor misdemeanours up to serious criminal offences) seems endemic across the ranks up to and including Chief Constables. It is not surprising therefore that some rank and file officers behave in the way that they do. Scarcely a month passes without a story or two of wrongdoing by police officers coming out.

If officers have lied to an extent that led to the downfall of a senior politician it is very worrying indeed. These officers, though not senior in rank, undertook extremely sensitive and responsible duties and so were, to a degree, a cut above the usual rank and file. If they have fabricated evidence they have let down many thousands of their honest colleagues who may find it increasingly difficult to have their evidence accepted by magistrates and juries. And then we’re all losers.

[sandyRoe]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[New Judge]

For those readers without a classical education Sandy means "Who guards the guardians?"

[humbersloop]

They're really quite disturbing figures, although a charitable reading is that senior officers aren't getting away with behavior as they once did.

Not a reassuring picture either way though, and I can't see how the new Police and Crime Commissioners - who are supposedly the "radical rethink" remember - will have any impact on it at all.

[argorstran]

I trust the police far more than I trust politicians or journalists .

[Hopkirk]

Well I have always trusted the Police without question, but my faith in them has been severely rocked recently.

[sandyRoe]

The popular music hall song, 'If you want to know the time, ask a policeman', is thought to be a reference to their habit of relieving drunks in Victorian times of their watches and chains
You somehow can't imagine there's much of that now. So things must have improved a bit.

[anotheoldgit]

This kind of thing didn't happen on this scale in the 50s, or once again they were but we just didn't get to know about it?

[douglas9401]

More money, less work, less contact with the public, no local beat officers, automatic backing of their position without question, dressing up in paramilitary style uniforms and an arrogant air of superiority may be some of the things that attract the wrong sort of person to the job.

[sandyRoe]

And in the past wasn't there a tacit understanding between the Bench and the Police that 'verbals' would carry as much weight as any other sort of evidence?

[LazyGun]

@NJ
"For those readers without a classical education Sandy means "Who guards the guardians?"

Thanks for the patronage.

[jno]

from 2008 to 2011 there were 8500 allegations of police corruption and just 13 convictions

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/thousands-of-police-accused-of-corruption--just-13-convicted-7786257.html

This suggests a remarkable rate of innocence, or untouchability.

See how badly your area did:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2012/may/24/police-corruption-map

[TWR]

I would say not! or would they be following the Examples of the Lying, fraudulent, hypocritical, cheating, M.P's. that's running this Country.
I would also like the so called idiotic Judges of this Country to be re-trained, half of them have not got a clue how to sentence.

[Hopkirk]

Whatever happened to PC Dixon?

[New Judge]

"I would also like the so called idiotic Judges of this Country to be re-trained, half of them have not got a clue how to sentence. "

Actually, TWR, your spleen needs to be directed towards the MPs you mentioned earlier. Judges and Magistrates must sentence according to the guidelines laid down by the Sentencing Council. The said council is heavily influenced (though they will deny it) by the government of the day.

[TWR]

I'm in view of that judge, but they are voted by the public & they do have a voice, with respect to your answer, if they think the justice system is in need of change, they should voice their views that's what the get paid for.

[Gromit]

So 30 Met Police officers are now busy investigating some other police Officers. While they try and find out how a policeman brought down the Chief Whip in an elected Government, and whether the Police Federation were behind it all, the Chief Constable, Bernard Hogan-Howe, is now on holiday until the end of January. I would have thought the Chief Constable would take this matter more seriously. I cannot help but think he may not be in his present employment much longer and a wiser man would be fighting for his job.

[argorstran]

The police are not out of control . If you've had a burglary or been attacked you'd realise how good they are .
The journalists slagging them off have their own political agenda .