Coroners Reports.

[askyourgran]

Not sure where to put this, but to cut a long story short my nephew died last Friday, he was living in Lancashire his parents live in Sussex. The nephew was found in the road by a taxi rank, apparently beaten up in the early hours of the morning two years ago. He was brain damaged and stayed in one of the city's hospitals able to talk to visitors, he was later transferred to another Hospital and from then on lost his ability to talk, he had several brain operations. His parents are elderly his father has cancer but his youngest son brought them to stay with us occasionally so they could visit him.
The hospital said he had MRSA, he was in a vegetative state unable to do anything for himself, later he was transferred to a hospice where he began to take notice, he recognised his father and held onto him. There was a court case to see if he could be moved to a hospice in sussex quite near to his family, but the judge ruled he should stay in Lancashire. A week later he has died, his parents seem to think there is a cover-up at the hospital, but were unable to find out. The hospice said they would arrange a funeral director for them. However the doctor wouldn't sign the death certificate. Then the Coroner rang them wanting to know about the Police action, saying he to hold a Post mortem, only to find that the Funeral director has already embalmed him, without any papers. Any evidence is now lost. My SIL and BIL are in peices about this, surely this is against the law.

[mazie]

I'm really sorry for you loss gran :o( I can't add more than that to help you. Perhaps Barmaid could help

[arwyn]

Try the P.A,L's web-site, there's been a huge mistake or a cover up.

[askyourgran]

Thanks I'm feeling so sad for them wish I could give them some help.

[arwyn]

Bring this to latest posts tomorrow, its so sad I can't imagine how you all feel. Hope someone helps you tomorrow..

[gness]

AYG....I had to sign for my husband to be embalmed and then only after clearing it with the coroner as there was to be a PM.

[mazie]

I'm sure you just being there for them gran helps them a lot.....Think about you at this sad time xxx

[askyourgran]

That's what I thought gness, my BIL is miles away, when the Coroner telephoned BIL he wanted to know what the Police had come up with, but as far as we know the Police have closed his file The Coroner was not pleased and said that a post mortem would be held. Being so far away has hindered all this, I would have thought the Hospice where he died would have sorted out his mortuary care considering there was no death certificate, until the Coroner took charge. It was the Hospice who suggested that they would arrange a funeral director for him, we thought to save bil the worry but now I think that he was pretty quick in doing the embalming on Monday am.

[boxtops]

That just doesn't sound right - perhaps there will be a coroner's enquiry? It all seems indecently hasty. So sorry to hear this, AYG.

[askyourgran]

Thanks boxy, I wondered if there could be any recourse about this. Obviously SIL is unhappy that she cannot put him to rest without all these problems still lingering.

[gness]

If the Coroner is involved, AYG I don't think a death certificate can be issued until after the PM....I had an interim one for legal matters for eighteen months. I know you are not next of kin and they may not speak to you but I found the Coroner's office extremely helpful. Is there any way you could speak to them to get a first hand account as his parents really can't be thinking straight with all that has happened? x

[buildersmate]

I think gness is correct - no death cert untril after an inquest by Coroner..

I also think an undertaker is not permitted to prepare a body without having seen a copy of the death certificate. It's a fundamental.

[askyourgran]

I've spoken to their other son as I didn't want to presume anything. He is in touch with the people involved and will let me know if I can do anything. It is still a bit of distance from here to travel to Lancashire so he always stays with us when he needs go over there. Thanks for your replies. x

[gness]

Take care. x

[Peter Pedant]

It could be that the doctor couldnt sign the death cert as it seems obvious to me [and might have to him ] that the death was due to violence (two years previously)

the coroner can inquire into any death in his area

the disposal and processing of the body without coroner's permission is really a coroner's issue. Asking the family where the police had got up to is just a ranging shot from the coroner tryng to find out what has been going on over the last two years. This will be his first involvement.

saying there is a hospital cover-up in a case where someone is beaten to death and then dies two years later obviously badly brain damaged is either a red herring or a non-starter.

obviously this is a family tragedy of long duration
but in the end in coroner's cases and police cases one has to look at the underlying facts.

I think you should get the family to concentrate on the funeral and not things like hospital cover ups (what was there to cover up ?) and coroner's disputes (the coroner's case can't change the progression from being beaten up to dying).

[gness]

Peter...I guess your advice to concentrate on the funeral is from personal experience. But we all deal with things in a different way.
My experience of an unexplained death requiring a PM and the intervention of a coroner was different. Organising and concentrating on the funeral did nothing to take my mind away from what was happening and the unanswered questions.

[askyourgran]

It was never established that he was actually beaten up, the possibility was that perhaps he was drunk and fell into the road and a taxi ran over him, that was another theory. When he was first taken to hospital he was brain damaged but able to communicate, my OH talked to him. He was transferred to another hospital, where they inserted a tube wrongly into his head this caused more damage, in all he had 10 ops, in the end unable to speak. When they were asked to send reports to the barrister they delayed and delayed sending results. They knew he had MRSA. That caused the suspicion to escalate. The day before he died he was vomiting quite badly. Nothing has been straightforward, we are all separated by distance which makes things difficult. Now his family will shortly go to see the Hospice staff to thank them and arrange for his ashes to be sent to them. They are resigned to the fact that they have lost him and that there is nothing they can do.

[askyourgran]

I should say that he was in a Hospice when he became ill and died, they were very caring. There is slightly more to this event, but I feel this isn't altogether relevent to add it here.

[Peter Pedant]

gness - we are but the sum of our experiences

I dont think this death - however tragic - is unexplained

apparently beaten up or apparently run over is an adequate explanation of PVS progressing to death two years later

[askyourgran]

The face that he had MRSA doesn't seem to register, nor the fact that the hospital put his tube in the wrong place, then having to operate again to try to repair the damage. He was aware of things around him. His reaction to his fathers voice a month ago was immense. Two weeks before he died he had to go to hospital because his feeding tube was blocked, then he started being sick a couple of days before he died. Because the funeral parlour jumped the gun any evidence is now lost, the Coroner had to return a verdict of Accidental death. The death certificate is expected to be released next week, so we can arrange the funeral date. It seems odd that a business friend of OH knew of someone who went into the same hospital for a routine stomach op, and contracted MRSA and died.

[boxtops]

It does sound like medical negligence from what you say - this should all be documented - has the family done anything about consulting a specialist solicitor?