Will Advice (Again)

[jaynethepain]

Popped a message on here yesterday and thanks for advice everyone. It has now come to light that the deceased did not sign the will (which was written by hand by the main beneficiary). The beneficiary, who is also the executor, turned up at a friends house and asked them to sign the will as witnesses. All this happened two months before Uncle died.

Although the will has been 'frozen' or whatever the word is, the executor and main beneficiary, has sold all the contents of the property and is using his brothers cash card to withdraw funds from the account.

Does this all sound legal and above board? Is it a police matter or a solicitors matter?

[boxtops]

it certainly doesn't sound legal and above board. The Will has to be signed in person by the person making the bequests, and the witnesses are supposed to be there when they sign (to witness the signature - they can't witness if they weren't there). It sounds like embezzlement to me, but I'm interested to see what others think.

[Mamyalynne]

If Uncle B did not sign the piece of paper in front of the witnesses it is not a will.

[boxtops]

Glad you agree, mamya - I think it'll be a police matter.

[Mamyalynne]

As a family, you need to act immediately before more assets are lost.

[Barmaid]

Get a solicitor ASAP. The Will *sounds* invalid, but you really need expert legal advice on this. You may need to act quickly.

[Peter Pedant]

Do as barmaid says....

Para 2 - will frozen and a "helper" is helping himself.....
get a solicitor ! doesnt sound very frozen to me .....

and yes I think you need to act quickly to avoid more objects going down the tube....

and no it doesnt sound very legal and above board ....

[Peter Pedant]

// Using a dead persons cash card is a criminal offence. Can you prove it? As a minimum you will need to know which bank(s) he used. //

that's the easy bit - we are all video'd when we use a card arent we ?

All they need to show is that there is a dead man walking ( and withdrawing money ) I cant imagine that probate has been granted.....

[Buenchico]

>>>The beneficiary, who is also the executor, turned up at a friends house and asked them to sign the will as witnesses

It's not the actual will which is witnessed but the signing of it. (The witnesses don't need to see the contents of the will or even to know that's what it is. They are simply witnessing that they saw the document being signed).

If the will wasn't signed (as your post states) then there can be no valid witnesses, since there was nothing for them to witness. Even if the will was signed by the testator, but the 'witnesses' didn't actually see it being signed, then nothing was witnessed.

[boxtops]

I hope jayne comes back soon, before all is gone...

[dzug2]

As executor (which yes he may not be) he probably has the right to sell the house contents - as long as he accounts for the money and pays it into the estate

Executor not, he doesn't have the right to continue to use the deceased's bank account - but there is of course the possibility it was a joint account in which case it is arguably his.

[Peter Pedant]

// If the will wasn't signed (as your post states) then there can be no valid witnesses, since there was nothing for them to witness. //

but it makes a good story dunnit ?

Shipman did this with Katie Grundy's will - He got two of his patients to sign a blank bit of paper.... what on earth did he say to no 2 ? [since it now wasnt blank but had a signature flapping half way down the page ] I have always wondered.

[jaynethepain]

We are just waiting for a copy of the will and then off to the solicitors. Thank you everyone, it's all been very useful. I will keep you posted.

[factor-fiction]

I'd also send the banka copy of the death cert so they stop further withdrawls

[Peter Pedant]

but of course FF it could be a joint account....
we dont as we keep saying have all the facts

still if you have a DC good idea - even if you dont - worth a try

[EDDIE51]

Using the bank card of a dead person is fraud. You MUST inform the bank he is dead. Use the 24 hour hot line to the banks stolen / lost card centre and do it now before all the cash is gone. You just need to explain what has happened and give his name and address, the bank will be able to find his account details.

[dzug2]

If I were a bank I would be very wary acting on an effectively anonymous phone call from a random stranger

By all means call them but expect to be stonewalled and told to go into a branch or write with documentation

[boxtops]

Don't ring them them - go into the local branch this morning, with a copy of the death certificate.

[Barmaid]

I wouldn't bother with the police at least not at this stage (last time I reported something like this - and I had real evidence - I was told it was a civil matter!!!!). I know these things take an awfully long time but given that uncle died last year, I would have thought this should have been dealt with about 6 months ago.

And how on earth do you know that the Uncle is emptying the bank account?

I would urge you to see a solicitor asap.