Planning Permission For Change Of Use From Pub To Residential Houses, Do You Have To Prove To The Planning Dept That You Have Tried To Sell The Pub As A Going Concern Before You Apply For Change Of Use?

[Lesleytyler63]

I'm trying to find online the rules and regulations for this but can't find any information.

[EDDIE51]

You said that the pub has not been accepted as an 'Asset of community Value' So there must be a reason for that decision. Is it the only pub in the village?
I agree with everything you say in your 18.08 reply but unfortunately as the application for it to be listed as an asset of community value was rejected there is nothing you can do to stop the sale.
Money comes before everything to an owner of a pub. My local that I used for 39 years was sold for housing last year, as I said it was trading at a decent profit but the 3 owners sold it for £4.5 million. £1.5 million each was just too much to turn down. It was really annoying as the pub was run for over 25 years by the same Landlady who died in 2013, she left the pub to her 3 children, they were the ones who found the offer of £1.5 million each was better than running a pub and guest house.
We tried to get it listed as an asset but like you we failed. Without 'listed asset' status there is nothing at all in law anyone can do to prevent a sale.

[Lesleytyler63]

The pub has always been a profitable pub, the last landlord had no interest and run the place down. Barring half the village and opening and closing as he wanted meaning you would turn up and the doors would be locked. Unfortunately this played into the hands of the owners who bought the pub with him as a sitting tenant.

The landlord ran the pub by himself and was over 60 and desperate to retire.

Even with the landlord there bringing the pub down and the fact that the owners never spent a penny on the upkeep of the pub it sold on average 48 pints of beer each day, not including all other beverages, snacks etc.

The pub needs a refurb with a viable kitchen so the pub can compete properly within its market.

The Milton park industrial estate is about half a mile away and the pub could easily attract revenue from there is it did food.

If I felt the pub wasn't needed in our village then I would happily watch its demise although it has a historic standing and stands at the heart of the village. It's been closed now for a month and it is greatly missed.

[woofgang]

Have any of your group ever run a village pub? I have. You need the stamina of several oxen and the patience of a large rock.

[Barmaid]

I might have got this completely wrong, but isnt there another pub there? The George and Dragon?

[Lesleytyler63]

We failed with the asset because the owner was very clever and de-licensed the pub and closed it doors. The asset failed because of the Localism Act in that the Council couldn't see a future for the pub as the owners said they closed it and would not reopen it within the next five years.

[woofgang]

48 pints of beer??????? that won’t pay for the loo roll

[Baldric]

///sold on average 48 pints of beer each day///

Gosh, that's good

[Lesleytyler63]

Yes there are other pubs although solely restaurants. The Plough was the only place where people could play pub games in local leagues, fundraising for village causes, celebration parties, wakes, the village golf society run from there and the WI used it as their meeting place. Etc etc

[Lesleytyler63]

48 pints a day for a village pub that only opened for a couple of hours a day isn't bad!

[Lesleytyler63]

Imagine the potential if it was equipped for food plus all other customers with it open proper hours

[retroactive]

There are two pubs other than The Plough in your village: The George and Dragon and The Fish.
This is more than likely why the pub was not given an ACV

[Barmaid]

Well I think your only chance is to appeal the Council's decision. Has your local councillor got involved? What does the Parish Council say? It may be possible to "call in" the decision but you'll have to take advice on that because my LG law is a bit rusty.

[Barmaid]

THis is part of the problem the idealism and imagination. Whilst I would never slate anyone for optimism, I think there has to be a dose of reality.

[Lesleytyler63]

The parish council supported the asset and have objected to the change of use and planning permission. The parish council want to keep the pub open in the village.

[Lesleytyler63]

We have appealed everything we can, my original question was ... Does anyone know what the planning rules are, if you dispose of a pub do you have to be seen to try and sell it as a pub before you submit planning permission and change of use?

[retroactive]

No you do not need to sell it as a going concern. From what you have said the pub was closed before it was put up for sale . If the business ended at this point for Tax purposes then the pub is no longer a business -it is a vacant former licencee premises. A pub in a nearby village was up for sale recently and the sales brochure read 'former licensed premises with potential to convert to residential property.'

[bednobs]

i feel for you, and you obviously feel incredibly strongly about this issue. I think it's worth doing ehat barmid suggests and getting specilised legal advice, and then you can be confident tht you have covered every possible avenue

[cassa333]

Like it or not the owners didn't want to work 18 hours a day seven days a week.

Like it or not the owner can get more money for the pub land than he can earn for himself (working 18 hours a day seven days a week even).

Like it or not you and the consortium (probably) couldn't match the price offered by developers, especially so with planning permission. In fact why accept (for arguments sake) £250,000 from you when he can get £1.5m or more from a developer.

Perhaps the consortium could look to buy another local asset and convert it into a newer drinking place.

[Baldric]

///Like it or not the owners didn't want to work 18 hours a day seven days a week.///

The owners are Hawthorn Leisure, I don't see them working 18 hours a day to be fair