Grandparents Rights

[Beaubb30]

Hi, any advice would be really greatly appreciated.
Do us grandparents have any rights at all?
I've had my grandson every weekend since he was born. (He's 11 month old)
The last few months ive been having him 3/4 days a week.
Last week his mum decided she'd had enough she wanted to go out let her hair down and have fun! Told her id have my grandson, the day i was supposed to take him back she messaged can i keep him another night, they was just over a week ago and i still have him! I've asked if i can keep him long term while she sorts herself out and she said yes, that was yesterday, now she's saying she wants him back now! I've been warned if i get social services involved she'll stop me seeing him! And apart from her going out and not really bonding with my grandson he is looked after.
I absolutely adore my grandson, he's just everything, im just living day to day waiting does she want him back, doesn't she.

[calmck]

Is the mum your daughter? Where is the father? If you think the child would be in danger from neglect or abuse by his mum you are obligated to contact social services.

[davebro]

It must be heartbreaking for you. The mother sounds very conflicted but unless the authorities determine that she is not a fit mother then her rights & wishes take precedence.

Even if her son was removed from her he might be placed with a foster home & not necessarily with you. Perhaps you could agree with her that he stays with you on 2 or 3 days a week on a regular basis?

[barry1010]

Grandparents don't have automatic legal rights in England and Wales. You can ask the courts for permission to apply for a court order for contact with your grandson but that can cause huge problems within the family as you can imagine.
You are in a very tricky situation and you need to think very carefully before you do anything. As your grandson is happy, healthy and not in any danger don't make any rash decisions.

[Beaubb30]

I've tried to cut a very long story short.
The mother is my daughter in law, my son lived there untill yesterday (they've been together 5 years)
She suffers with her mental health and hasn't bonded with my grandson, ive honestly been through hell and back with them over the last 5 years and truly done everything in my power to help her, to help them.
I can't say my grandson is being neglected as such, emotionally i think he is.
I could write a book it's that long of a story.
I love my grandson so much i just want him happy and safe.

[pixie374]

I expect she does want him back. She may be struggling a little and you sound like a brilliant, supportive grandparent. But it might be best to speak to her and arrange something regular so you both and your grandson know where you are. Perhaps you are making it too easy for her to need to take responsibility and properly bond?
Suggesting he lives with you is very risky as it could cause all sorts of conflict and he isn't at any risk. Work together x

[pixie374]

Cross-posted with you.

[KARL]

The short answer (in a case such as this) is a flat No. As already pointed out, the courts and other authorities would not place grandparents before anyone else, including (foster) homes from their list. The authorities have (in extreme cases) ultimate power over deciding a child's future, including above the rights of the parents - and for good reason. All parties have been known to fail in and/or abuse/exceed their powers in this area - including the authorities. Courts are by definition always correct although they too have shown crass errors in judgement. We are discussing the frailty of the human condition.

[Ken4155]

Where does your son fit into all this? what's his take on things?

[Beaubb30]

My son worship's her! We've just found out she's been cheating on him but he literally doesn't care, without sounded nasty but she is very manipulating she's admitted this herself, her own word's are "I'm the master of manipulation" my son want's them back as a family and thinks my grandson is the only way of that happening.
I honestly don't think either have any interest in him.
It's honestly breaking me and knowing ive no rights at all as just broke me

[woofgang]

You say she has mental health issues, is she receiving treatment for them? Have they been medically diagnosed? I do supsect, from the little you have said that if it was considered best for the baby to be removed from his parents, then he would be removed completely from the situation which would include you because of the risk of his being used as a bargaining chip.

[joeski53]

Having been in your shoes I know exactly what you are going through, As grandparents we took our sons girlfriend (they are not married) to court to gain access, the court awarded us access on set days, It creates further problems and being as stroppy as she was she was generally causing more problems (not having them ready on time) things like that, it really didn't work, the strain got worse and in the end we let it drop and let her do things her way, the children miss us we know that, she is punishing them in a way that imo the children could resent her for this later in not giving them more time with us. The advice on social services is correct, you have a duty to contact them if you fear they are being neglected, I didn't do that because the children when I saw them were always well dressed and fed, they were fine, my son stands with her on this and this created strains on our relationship with him, it had a tremendous toll on my wife (his mother) in the end I told them that they were not helping the situation, we were told often that we would never see them again, she had not forgot that we had taken her to court so that festered with her really.She looks after the children well, so I couldn't go any further tbh, your situation seems different in that you seem to have legitimate concerns, you also seem to be at her beck and call with altered/changed arrangements, that was another thing we clashed over, I thought that was very unfair then to get a call saying thanks but i'm here now is not fair on you either. I hope it works out for you, there is no easy answer as thousands like us will testify to!!

[Beaubb30]

Yes she's recieving treatment.
There's so much pressure with people saying go to social services but these comments are exactly why i haven't.
I'm getting true advice from people who aren't emotionally involved that's why ive turned to here x
I can't risk them turning on me and me not seeing my grandson, so trying my hardest to help even though im seeing with my own eye's what they're like.
I think literally all i can do is ask for him as many day's as i can get him?
I know she doesn't want him under her feet especially if there is a new man on the scene.

[Beaubb30]

Oh joeski my heart goes out to you x it's absolutely horrendous x

[woofgang]

Can I say that at the moment you are putting your needs before the child's? I am sorry that is harsh but from what you have said its true.

"I can't risk them turning on me and me not seeing my grandson,"

"I've been warned if i get social services involved she'll stop me seeing him! And apart from her going out and not really bonding with my grandson he is looked after.
I absolutely adore my grandson, he's just everything, im just living day to day waiting does she want him back, doesn't she."

I don't know the answer but I think you have to really think about what is best for him....as i said, it may be not being where is is a bargaining chip......

[pixie374]

I wouldn't even ask for as many as possible just now. It sounds like she needs to get herself into more a routine and spend more time with him. Maybe weekends, or certain days, so she gets a break and you get to see him? You want to be supportive without getting in the way, if that makes sense.

[pixie374]

I agree, woof. Was trying to be tactful...

[Beaubb30]

Wolfgang i absolutely get what you're saying and reading back i agree it does sound like that.
It's just hard to write everything down as quickly as i have.
There is so much more to it.
I honestly appreciate every single comment and everyone's honesty

[pixie374]

What you don't want is a tug-of-war... For him, good strong relationships with both parents, and grandparents supporting that, should be the aim.

[ummmm]

Social services only take children as a last resort.

My in-laws brought up their 4 grandchildren. No one questioned it.

[barry1010]

It's easy when everyone wants that, ummm