Over Crowding

[feebee102]

Some of you might have seen my last post regarding my son knowing where his little boy is living with his mom and new partner. Two weeks ago we eventually found out. Then a few days ago she let slip that they are looking for somewhere bigger to live as they are living in a one bedroom flat.
There’s my grandson (4), his mom, her new partner, his 15 year old son and then he has his other son and daughter (10 & 3 respectively) stopping occasionally.
My grandson is sleeping on the settee while his moms partners 15 year old sleeps on a pull out bed in the same room.
Every time we have my grandson he is always so tired and quiet. He’s not in school at the moment as his mom hasn’t got him enrolled. Also the 15 year old is left looking after my grandson a lot.
My question is - is all this legal or not

[bednobs]

I don't see why it wouldn't be.

[bednobs]

There is no need to start school or home learning till 5 anyway

[feebee102]

bednobs it just seem a very healthy environment for a 4 year old. And he should have started full time education beginning of September

[feebee102]

Sorry should have said not a very healthy environment

[burlyshirley1]

I'm so worried about this little boy, as I was in one of your previous posts. I have no idea about the law, sorry, but if he should be in school now, then surely SOME law is being broken ? I'm reluctant to mention this, but do you remember the little boy who lived with his Mum and her boyfriend and the boyfriend's evil older son, who was found murdered and dumped in a local river recently ? I am not saying this is the same, but it's unusual, is it not, for a four year old to be so quiet ?? Maybe you could start by involving the law over the fact he has not yet been enrolled at school. Poor little lad.

[Buenchico]

For the overcrowding issue, see here:
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/check_if_your_home_is_overcrowded_by_law

It's not clear as to whether the 15-year-old is attending school or whether he's being left to look after the younger child during school times. However parents are legally obliged to ensure that a 15-year-old is in school (unless approved alternative arrangements are in place). Failure to do so is a criminal offence, which can attract heavy penalties (of up to 3 months imprisonment).
https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence

While there is no minimum legal age for a someone to babysit a child (or to otherwise be involved in their care), there are circumstances where leaving a child in the care of a person under the age of 16 can result in a charge of child neglect being brought against the responsible adult(s).
https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/in-the-home/home-alone/

While there is no obligation on parents to use formal care arrangements for three-year-olds, the children of parents who fail to take up the offer of free childcare are often disadvantaged when it comes to starting their formal education:
https://www.gov.uk/help-with-childcare-costs/free-childcare-and-education-for-2-to-4-year-olds

The three-year-old will become eligible to enter formal education at the start of the first term following his 4th birthday. So his mother ought to be thinking about finding a school place for him.
https://www.gov.uk/schools-admissions/school-starting-age

[bednobs]

the law is that you have to start school (or education) following your 5th birthday. Most children start after their 4th birthday, but it's not compulsory. Therefore, no law being broken there.
also re overcrowding, it's a guideline, not a law

[Buenchico]

>>> re overcrowding, it's a guideline, not a law

Wrong!

Part X of the Housing Act 1985 applies. Both landlords and occupiers are guilty of a criminal offence if they allow the rules on statutory overcrowding to be broken:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/68/part/X/data.pdf

[bednobs]

so i'm breaking the law when my family all bomb round at christmas and sleep on floors/sofas/cushions and so on(and on one noteable occasion the bath?

[bednobs]

looking at your link "visiting relatives" don't appear to count, so the 3 yr old and 10 year old don't count.
The mum and partner don't count as they are living together as partners, and the two sons only count as 1 and a half in one room?

[Buenchico]

This is probably easier to follow, Bednobs:
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/overcrowding

Without knowing
(a) what other rooms, beside the bedroom, there are in the flat ; and
(b) the floor areas of all the rooms ;
it's impossible to say for sure whether or not the rules are being broken in this case.

[bednobs]

i suppose when i said it's only guidelines, i meant what can the poster actually do if it's over crowded? Council house people in overcrowding situations all the time. I highly doubt any police will be interested

[barry1010]

No overcrowding as the living room also counts as a room and as already stated visitors don't count.
Children sleeping regularly in the living room is not ideal unless the parents go to bed at the children's bedtime