Using relatives chip and pin

[kaztuz]

Can anyone tell me whether it is illegal, for example, to let my husband go in to a shop with my credit card and use my pin number if he has my permission to do so. If it is illegal who would be the person committing the offence?

[kempie]

Not quite sure of the legality - I would think that your husband could be charged because it is technically an act of fraud; and you would have participated in the conspiracy - but it certainly would be a breach of the card issuer's Terms & Conditions to which you signed up, unless there is specific provision for another person to use the card (if such a thing exists).

One of the Ts & Cs expressly states that your PIN should never be given to a third person and the back of the card should read something along the lines of...

"use subject to terms and conditions"
"only to be used by authorised signatory"

The cardholder is not in any position to grant another person the use of 'their' card since it remains the property of the issuer.

[dannydingbat]

What offence? He has your permission to use the card and place the money on your credit card. If he has your permission, it seems that the only offence will be committed if you later claimed that your card was used unlawfully and without your permission. That's conspiracy. It's all down to the conditions by which the card was issued as the Credit card firm may wish to make an issue of it. Doubt it though.

[##Wardy##]

I doubt any offence would be committed.

For all thefts and frauds there has to be a "dishonest" intention.

As for deception, you can not deceive a machine which chip and pin is.

Administrative offence only with the issuing card company.

[black bunny]

If the sales assistant on the till was alert, they would notice the name on the card which probably indicates the card holder is female...your husband would be a male attempting to use a female's card and would quite rightly be challenged about whose card it was.
Is it really worth the hassle? Why don't you make your husband an additional card holder on your account so that he has his own card?

[joko]

thing is, if the shop sees a man with a womans card trying to pay, they may call the police, refuse to serve him or even take the card off you - i have heard that this is allowed - i may be wrong

better just tell him to go to the cashpoint first

[gina32]

im not sure what are the rights or wrongs about it. what does annoy me is that with a big company they wont speak to the another person unless given permission by the other which is completely acceptable but they never refuse to accept a cheque with someone elses signature for payment , not made that very clear but hope you get the jist, any thoughts???

[Loosehead]

As above, not actually illegal but open to all sorts of problems not least of which would be the breach of the terms of issue.

[kaztuz]

Gina32 - That really bugs me too when companies will only speak to the main person, I always do all the financial stuff, but occasionally things have to be in just my hubbys name, and sometimes even when he has given his permission for me to speak to them they won't speak to me, which is so annoying as most of the time he doesn't really understand what they're going on about and hates talking to strangers on the phone, thats why I do all the official stuff. arghhhhh!!

[Zulu]

I would argue that this is illegal. Buy offering the card as payment to a sales assistant you are saying, "I am the person whose details are on the card". This would be the element of dishonesty. The princepal of it being impossible to deceive a machine is correct, but does not apply in this case because your husband would be deceiving the sales assistant, not the chip and pin machine. In my opinion, an offence of deception would be complete.

[hammerman]

It might be a good idea to write a note saying "Mr Joe Bloggs has my permission to use card no xxxxxxx. Signed Mary Bloggs"

Or something along those lines.

I would always go to customer services first and explain the circumstamces before loading up tons of shopping.

[beryllium]

I give mr B. my card all the time, it's his money after all but
the cards are in my name. All the shops he uses know us as a couple and so allow him to use my card and that includes Tescos lol..... it is purely because they know that sometimes I'm too ill myself to go out and get the shopping etc......
I'm glad they allow this for us and if my cards ever went missing I'd let the bank know anyhows.....
Only 1 problem I can see with this is if he lost them after a purchase he'd done and the bank running through where (I'd) been previously and I would as such be lying to confirm a purchase actually made by him for me.... don't think they'd be too impressed with our arrangements then..
:-)

[Ethel]

berryllium -

Most if not all credit cards allow you to have other cards on your account in someone elses name.

Why don't you get cards in your husband's name, and then there is no problem.

Anybody allowing another person to use their card is breaking the terms of their agreement with the card company. If you ever have to make a claim for fraudulent or unauthorised use you will always be asked if anybody else knows the pin number.

[beryllium]

Hi Ethel,
It's been like this for a long time. I think the idea was to make me feel like I had my own income and that it is 'my money' and 'my cards'.
I'll tell him to use his account today at the vets lol......
As for him knowing the pin nos, he needs to for me because sometimes I can't physically put the no. in anyway.
Not alot I can do about that. :-)

[##Wardy##]

Zulu, I disagree.

The element of dishonesty in deception is in the actual obtaining or appropriation of services or property (or percunary advantage) , the same as any theft.

In this case there is no dishonesty.

Yes the cashier may be decieved intio thinking the card owner is him or her in front (when I said you can not deceive a machine, I rarely hand over my card and plonk it in the machine myself!!!), but this would not amount to deception.

The dishonesty is solely in the theft.

If however, the husband took the card without his wives consent then he would be dishonest if he used it.