Body & Soul1 min ago
driving without insurance special reasons
Hi My daughter (aged 20) recently passed her driving test and about 2 weeks later her friend asked her to drive him and some friends to a Uni do as he had been drinking. Her friends said she would be covered under his insurance as he said he was fully comp. She drove a little way and was stopped by the police (she hadn't done anything wrong, hadn't been drinking etc)) they asked her for her documents and she said it wasn't her car so they said she needed to bring in her ins docs next day. She went the next day with her friend and his docs and was in shock when the police said they did not cover her. She was a named driver for our car at the time but of course that doesn't cover her for other cars. She genuinely believed she was covered is there any chance that she could please special reasons and does anyone know what the best way to approach this is? She is such a good kid and would never have driven if she hadn't thought she was insured.
Answers
[Two Part Answer]
She should...
She should...
14:02 Tue 23rd Nov 2010
> MarkRae - it was purely that she believed her friends who all thought she would be covered.
Without wishing to sound harsh, has the penny really not dropped yet? It matters not one iota what she thought. The law is the law and she broke it. That's how it works.
Graham Rix thought the girl was over 18 because she was drinking alcohol in a bar. She wasn't. What he thought had no bearing on his custodial sentence...
Without wishing to sound harsh, has the penny really not dropped yet? It matters not one iota what she thought. The law is the law and she broke it. That's how it works.
Graham Rix thought the girl was over 18 because she was drinking alcohol in a bar. She wasn't. What he thought had no bearing on his custodial sentence...
[Two Part Answer]
There have been one or two bits of misleading information given among some of the answers.
Firstly, assuming your daughter is not covered by any other policy as has been suggested, she has no defence and no mitigation. It is absolutely her responsibility to ensure she was covered. She did not do so, and that’s that.
She should be offered a fixed penalty for this offence. This is set at £200 and six penalty points. If it is offered she should accept it. However, she can decline the offer and opt for a court hearing. This will be at the Magistrates’ Court. Her case will be heard by three lay magistrates. There will be no judge involved unless the court happens to be presided over by a District Judge on the day.
There have been one or two bits of misleading information given among some of the answers.
Firstly, assuming your daughter is not covered by any other policy as has been suggested, she has no defence and no mitigation. It is absolutely her responsibility to ensure she was covered. She did not do so, and that’s that.
She should be offered a fixed penalty for this offence. This is set at £200 and six penalty points. If it is offered she should accept it. However, she can decline the offer and opt for a court hearing. This will be at the Magistrates’ Court. Her case will be heard by three lay magistrates. There will be no judge involved unless the court happens to be presided over by a District Judge on the day.
[Part Two]
At court she can plead not guilty. She has no chance of acquittal. If she is found guilty following a trial she will be fined half a week’s net income, but will also be liable to pay a contribution towards prosecution costs, and this will probably be in the region of £350. As well as this she will be ordered to pay a Victim Surcharge of £15.
She can (and indeed should) plead guilty and offer her mitigation. As has been pointed out, it is unlikely to have any effect. In this case her fine will be reduced by a third, and the prosecution costs will only be about £85. The Victim Surcharge will still be applied.
In either case the magistrates will award her a minimum of six points. (This is the statutory minimum and the magistrates cannot go any lower). They can disqualify her but their guidelines suggest that six points should be imposed unless there are any aggravating circumstances. The six points do not mean that she will be disqualified, but the DVLA will revoke her full licence and she will have to take both parts of her test again. This revocation is done by the DVLA. The Magistrates have no involvement with this process and there is no right of appeal against it.
Indeed, a harsh lesson.
At court she can plead not guilty. She has no chance of acquittal. If she is found guilty following a trial she will be fined half a week’s net income, but will also be liable to pay a contribution towards prosecution costs, and this will probably be in the region of £350. As well as this she will be ordered to pay a Victim Surcharge of £15.
She can (and indeed should) plead guilty and offer her mitigation. As has been pointed out, it is unlikely to have any effect. In this case her fine will be reduced by a third, and the prosecution costs will only be about £85. The Victim Surcharge will still be applied.
In either case the magistrates will award her a minimum of six points. (This is the statutory minimum and the magistrates cannot go any lower). They can disqualify her but their guidelines suggest that six points should be imposed unless there are any aggravating circumstances. The six points do not mean that she will be disqualified, but the DVLA will revoke her full licence and she will have to take both parts of her test again. This revocation is done by the DVLA. The Magistrates have no involvement with this process and there is no right of appeal against it.
Indeed, a harsh lesson.
No.
As has been pointed out, "No Insurance" is an "absolute" offence. You either have it or you do not. If you do not you are guilty. It is absolutely the driver's responsibility to ensure that cover is in place. Simply being told that it is is not sufficient. The driver must ask to see the documentation before driving.
Because of this "Special Reasons" not to award points or to disqualify are rarely, if ever, successful for the offence and they would certainly not be successful in the circumstances you describe. Your daughter can give it a try, but she will have to decline the fixed penalty offer (if it is made) and go to court. She will then be liable to a penalty as I have described in my earlier answer and it is most unlikely that her Special Reasons application will succeed.
One other avenue to try to avoid falling foul of the “New Drivers” revocation process would be to ask the Bench to impose a short disqualification (14 to 28 days would be appropriate) instead of points. Oddly, the regulations do not apply to drivers who have been disqualified but only to those who accumulate six or more points. Disqualification is within the magistrates’ powers, but they would be sentencing outside their guidelines and they may not be too keen. I have seen it succeed, but your daughter would be well advised to employ a solicitor to put her case. There is, of course, still no guarantee of success.
As has been pointed out, "No Insurance" is an "absolute" offence. You either have it or you do not. If you do not you are guilty. It is absolutely the driver's responsibility to ensure that cover is in place. Simply being told that it is is not sufficient. The driver must ask to see the documentation before driving.
Because of this "Special Reasons" not to award points or to disqualify are rarely, if ever, successful for the offence and they would certainly not be successful in the circumstances you describe. Your daughter can give it a try, but she will have to decline the fixed penalty offer (if it is made) and go to court. She will then be liable to a penalty as I have described in my earlier answer and it is most unlikely that her Special Reasons application will succeed.
One other avenue to try to avoid falling foul of the “New Drivers” revocation process would be to ask the Bench to impose a short disqualification (14 to 28 days would be appropriate) instead of points. Oddly, the regulations do not apply to drivers who have been disqualified but only to those who accumulate six or more points. Disqualification is within the magistrates’ powers, but they would be sentencing outside their guidelines and they may not be too keen. I have seen it succeed, but your daughter would be well advised to employ a solicitor to put her case. There is, of course, still no guarantee of success.
Thanks again New Judge we appreciate your advice. Her friend wasn't drunk Mollykins, he had had a couple and they were trying to do the right thing and have someone who had not been drinking at all to do the driving. Her friend has offered to pay the fine but it is the points on the licence that is the main problem but as New Judge said it might be poss to ask for a disqualification. Thanks everyone for you help.
Just to put a different slant on this. Yes I feel very sorry for your daughter and if it was my daughter I know I would want to make everything right for her too. But the reason the law is absolute. Consider your daughter was cossing the road she has her whole life in front of her and along comes an unintentionally uninsured driver and her foot slips and knocks your daughter over making her wheelchair bound and brain damaged for the rest of her life. How sorry would you feel for the unintentially uninsured driver when you could get no insurance payout to help with the care of your daughter. Now do you see why being unaware is no defence?
My first thought when I heard about what had happened was thank god the police stopped her before anything could have happened I feel physically sick at the thought that someone could have been hurt and I think that if she had hurt someone she wouldn't have been able to live with it. If it had been her hurt by someone else (at the start of their life and with no intention to hurt anyone) then I hope I would find some compassion for them. I do see why it is an absolute offence but I still think there are degrees of culpability and that is why mitigating circumstances exist. We don't want to make everything right for her, we just went to help her through it.
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