ChatterBank2 mins ago
Guns In America.
57 Answers
I heard a converrsation today on Jeremy Vine's show in which two Americans discussed the recentg tragedy, and America's attitude to guns.
I am of the view of one of the participants, that overall, Americans are a violent people (generically that is) and that holding guns is now as much a part of the fabric of their culture as alcohol is in ours.
It appears that someone has seriously suggested that the children should have been armed to avoid being shot. So without wasting time on the mind-bending thought of a stroppy six year old sorting out his toy requirements with a loaded gun - is there really any way out of the American obsession with the right to bear arms which is enshrined in its Constitution?
Personally, I think that the population is so enamoured with the 'frontier' attitude that there is no foreseeable change, even after tragedies like this one.
People seem to assume that they are all the sensible people who know how to shoot, and wouldn;t just randomly kill strangers - that is 'someone else' - but the fact remains that people who are shot with guns tend to be gun owners.
I believe the the cultural shift needded would be started with an education programme that guns are ingerently evil, and not to be trusted, but what government would ever be elected on that platform? Obama is going to struggle to get assault rifles banned - so you can only shoot people one at a time, and not in bursts of thirty bullets simultaniously.
I have ideas what should happen - i know what will happen - nothing.
Your thoughts?
I am of the view of one of the participants, that overall, Americans are a violent people (generically that is) and that holding guns is now as much a part of the fabric of their culture as alcohol is in ours.
It appears that someone has seriously suggested that the children should have been armed to avoid being shot. So without wasting time on the mind-bending thought of a stroppy six year old sorting out his toy requirements with a loaded gun - is there really any way out of the American obsession with the right to bear arms which is enshrined in its Constitution?
Personally, I think that the population is so enamoured with the 'frontier' attitude that there is no foreseeable change, even after tragedies like this one.
People seem to assume that they are all the sensible people who know how to shoot, and wouldn;t just randomly kill strangers - that is 'someone else' - but the fact remains that people who are shot with guns tend to be gun owners.
I believe the the cultural shift needded would be started with an education programme that guns are ingerently evil, and not to be trusted, but what government would ever be elected on that platform? Obama is going to struggle to get assault rifles banned - so you can only shoot people one at a time, and not in bursts of thirty bullets simultaniously.
I have ideas what should happen - i know what will happen - nothing.
Your thoughts?
Answers
I lived in New jersey for two years and I don't think that the folk of NJ are violent. What I do think is that thinking in the US sometimes doesn't take into account "the greater good" or the concept of national legislation without- how shall i say this- extreme need. My experience is that the US is more like many different small countries than one big one. When...
17:14 Tue 18th Dec 2012
Obama will not persuade the gun fanatics to give up their weapons. He would be on a losing ticket had that been part of his re-election manifesto.
I don't think Americans are mad, but their love affair for want of better words is killing their citizens in record numbers. Perhaps as been suggested that regulate the selling of the bullets that they use.
I don't think Americans are mad, but their love affair for want of better words is killing their citizens in record numbers. Perhaps as been suggested that regulate the selling of the bullets that they use.
'Guns are inherently evil, and not to be trusted'......
Guns are inanimate objects and therefore are neither 'evil' nor 'good' and, as long as they are looked after properly, they can be trusted to do the work their owner requires of them.
The problem lies with people who pick them up and use them to do their evil work for them. If this lad had driven a 3.0 litre 4wd truck into the playground and run all these kids over would people be running round seriously suggesting that 3.0l 4wd trucks should be banned?
Guns are inanimate objects and therefore are neither 'evil' nor 'good' and, as long as they are looked after properly, they can be trusted to do the work their owner requires of them.
The problem lies with people who pick them up and use them to do their evil work for them. If this lad had driven a 3.0 litre 4wd truck into the playground and run all these kids over would people be running round seriously suggesting that 3.0l 4wd trucks should be banned?
You have it summarised in one; it is enshrined in the Constitution and there haven't been that many amendments have there - 27 to be precise, ten of which happened 15 years in as to the Bill of Rights. So 17 others in over 200 years is not a massive strike rate - why and my negativity, because the electoral set up is rigged to prevent change (similar to the Synod) and one needs a 70% majority, I believe, in both Houses for an amendment to be made. It won't happen therefore.
The solution, legislation against assault weapons - they had that and it lapsed - plus a campaign against guns - as numbers have been dropping. By the way Connecticut had some of the strictest gun laws - they didn't work - and there is some truth that whatever the legislation, someone hell-bent on destruction will find the way around it - such as heading for Mexico, buying there and bringing weaponry back in.
The solution, legislation against assault weapons - they had that and it lapsed - plus a campaign against guns - as numbers have been dropping. By the way Connecticut had some of the strictest gun laws - they didn't work - and there is some truth that whatever the legislation, someone hell-bent on destruction will find the way around it - such as heading for Mexico, buying there and bringing weaponry back in.
I believe a gun is an evil object - its purpose is to cause destruction of varying levels, and if used for its designed purpose, destructionis the result.
If you can start to deny the attraction of the gun, combined with the 'John Wayne' image that goes with it, you can start to ratchet down the appeal of owning and carrying guns - which would start to eradicate the problem.
The whole point about people carryng guns is that they tend to use them.
If you can start to deny the attraction of the gun, combined with the 'John Wayne' image that goes with it, you can start to ratchet down the appeal of owning and carrying guns - which would start to eradicate the problem.
The whole point about people carryng guns is that they tend to use them.
The US do seem wedded to their guns. Some suggest as many as 300 million guns in the hands of private citizens - in a country of some 320 million odd.
Given this prevalence of guns, given the reverence with which many americans hold the constitution, and given that this right to bear arms is enshrined in the constitution, it is very difficult to see any major changes in the forseeable future. Indeed, some states are liberalising the laws still further- reducing the number of background checks, reducing the cooldown time, allowing concealed weapons in public places etc.
There is something odd though about the americans attitude towards guns - Canada has very nearly as many guns per head of the population as the US, but a significantly lower rate of gun-related violence and spree killings.
I would have thought that banning automatic assault weapons might be a fairly uncontroversial first step, followed by limitations on the magazine size. This might have some impact on these horrible spree killings we see every few years or so over there.
Given this prevalence of guns, given the reverence with which many americans hold the constitution, and given that this right to bear arms is enshrined in the constitution, it is very difficult to see any major changes in the forseeable future. Indeed, some states are liberalising the laws still further- reducing the number of background checks, reducing the cooldown time, allowing concealed weapons in public places etc.
There is something odd though about the americans attitude towards guns - Canada has very nearly as many guns per head of the population as the US, but a significantly lower rate of gun-related violence and spree killings.
I would have thought that banning automatic assault weapons might be a fairly uncontroversial first step, followed by limitations on the magazine size. This might have some impact on these horrible spree killings we see every few years or so over there.
My point entirely em - I don't think you can.
Every state has differing laws, so some guns and ammunition cannot be carried or purchased in certain states, but can be brought in from other statesa, so those laws become meaningless.
I think that the mind-set around the frontier mentality is fostered and encouraged by the gun lobby, and not enough people disagree enough to try and create a change of attitude.
Every state has differing laws, so some guns and ammunition cannot be carried or purchased in certain states, but can be brought in from other statesa, so those laws become meaningless.
I think that the mind-set around the frontier mentality is fostered and encouraged by the gun lobby, and not enough people disagree enough to try and create a change of attitude.
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no not so much the John Wayne image, he used a winchester repeating rifle or a henry more often than not in his iconic roles, more the Dirty Harry or Death Wish image if you are going to site a one man assault but more than anything it is the carnage created virtually on any online or multi-media gaming that is the first point of blame for people like myself who can't imagine a culture where guns are legally carried through the streets by citizens.
I lived in New jersey for two years and I don't think that the folk of NJ are violent. What I do think is that thinking in the US sometimes doesn't take into account "the greater good" or the concept of national legislation without- how shall i say this- extreme need. My experience is that the US is more like many different small countries than one big one. When these dreadful things happen, there can be an undercurrent of "but this couldn't happen here so we don't need that law"
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Why shouldn;t gaming be considered a possible impetous for young men with an obsession about guns and shooting people on a screen to go out and do it for real? It makes sense to me, when my kids were into gaming they played supermario cart, now it's call of duty and grand theft auto where you can shoot anyone. of course it's a possibility that the obsessors and feeble minded folk would not get that it's only a game and they can't use real guns on real people.
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I think that the increasing reality and violence in gaming, and in films and TV does break down the barrier between the imagination and real life violence and must blunt the sensibilities. For most people this is not going to be a problem as their grip on reality will be sufficient to stop them. Where there is some mental instability, sadly this may not be the case.
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