Dont Panic, Dont Panic !!!!!!!!!!!

[anneasquith]

don't panic, via bbc news the 14 hospitals which have been investigated for poor quality services ( including high death rates ) are to have managers put in place to manage and oversee the managers. problem solved, .......ed sorry about the capitals but im so angry, :(

[friedgreentomato]

Well what do you think should happen?

[Baldric]

This the one anne?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23315869

[LoftyLottie]

And then probably managers to oversee the managers who are overseeing the existing managers...................

[jake-the-peg]

I think nearly 50% of our hospitals are under average performers!

It's an outrage! ;c)

[AB Editor]

Why are you angry?

[anneasquith]

thanks baldric, I don't suppose the cabinet minister for health is going to take any responsibility for this , and yes the previous minister also...

[Rosetta]

yet more jobs for the boys. And when they continue to fail as inevitably they will, they can move onto another top NHS job. My mum was in Stafford hospital and the last thing she needed was more bl**dy managers!!!

[andy-hughes]

I think, instead of managers, the NHS should install matrons.

Under the matrons system, hospitals functioned as they should - nurses were properly supervised by people who actually knew what they did, because they used to do it themselves. Doctors understood that wards were correctly operated, so they could concentrate on treatment, backed up by a properly run nursing support system.

Managers should run banks - matrons should run wards.

It really is that simple.

[anneasquith]

ed, why am I angry, because I spent 40years working in the NHS and the standard of care has fallen so much that I for one would be terrified to be admitted ( again ) to a hospital,

[LoftyLottie]

Agree entirely with Andy. Bring back Matrons!!

[Rosetta]

In principle matrons should improve standards of care but this didn't happen in Stafford, in fact they had two matrons, one for surgical wards and one for medical wards. The problem was they didn't have enough nurses to oversee

[andy-hughes]

Rosetta - one matron per surrgical discipline is what is commonly known as lip service - pretend you are operating a workable system by putting in a couple of token figures but leave out the authority, the staff, the training, and the manageable staff levels to allow them to function properly.

[anneasquith]

absolutely andy, back to the drawing board or there will be no NHS.

[viv38]

We hear such horror stories about hospitals lately, but my 85 year old Dad suddenly collapsed at home on Sunday evening. He was rushed to a local hospital and the care he received was second to none. All the nurses and doctors were lovely and courteous and extremely patient with my dear old Dad. He was treated with the respect and dignity he deserved and as he felt better, he was making them all laugh. Luckily he's home safely now, but has nothing but praise for the way he was treated, and neither have we.

[naomi24]

Hospitals have matrons. Our local hospital has six - but hospitals also have managers now.

[andy-hughes]

annasquith - until successive governments grasp the concept that health care is a service, not a business, we will continue in this crisis mode.

Putting a manager in a hospital and then running it on a 'competition' basis under the misguided idea that this raises standards doesn't make it run like a hopsital, it makes it run like a supermarket.

A price war over bananas is all well and good, with peoples' lives, less so.

Tragets belong on rifle ranges, bonuses belong on quiz shows, and managers belong in management environments.

Hospitals, and while we're about it, schools and nurseries, are not not businesses, they are services and should be funded, staffed and equiped in a way that befits their status and value to our society.

[Rosetta]

too right Andy. The whole system in Stafford was geared to saving money and getting to Foundation status. I dont know if the Matrons in Stafford fought against the staffing levels, they certainly should have been aware of them.

[jake-the-peg]

What get's me is people really aren't clear what they're getting worked up about here.

We're told hospitals are being investigated for poor standards and high death rates

How high? what standards? how far off?

There's little context here and people are left to their imaginations.

As I intimated above half of all hospitals (or anything) will be below average! That's the point of an average.

There can be good reasons for variations of death rates - for example some areas in the South and West have a relatively high aged population and you'd expect a higher death rate there that where there are younger communities.

We have to dig in to see the detail and it varies considerably

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23326410

From things of great concern like a high number of events that should *never happen* in some hospitals (like swabs being left in patients)

Through units where the main concern was doctors working too many hours (Something that was common place in the 'good old days')

Through to under staffing and 'talking down' to patients



It's a complex picture - and whilst nobody wants hospitals talking down to people it's not exactly a cause of righteous anger.


We need a *clearly understandable* minimum standard of care that all hospitals have to keep to, and that is annually audited and enforced

[Canary42]

But don't you understand, it's all part of the Tory's plan to kill off the NHS.

More managers = less money for medical staff so standards will sink even further.

[Davethedog]

If you cut 20,000 staff I expect standards to fall.

Also when it is spun by Hunt, it becames an unsupportable lie:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/16/report-nhs-hospitals-claims-care

No one right or left should use our health to play politics.