Does My Children's Uncle Have More Right To Arrange His Brother's Funeral Than My Children Do?

[Tigress1974]

This sounds absolutely ridiculous. But here goes. On Thursday evening my ex husband passed away. We've been finished for years. I'm okay, but obviously our children are heartbroken. They are ages 19, 21, 22 and 28. Their dad lived a life of simple means. Making a will, a pension plan, life insurance or saving money was way over his head, and during his dad's illness our son was the go-to for important phone calls etc. Yesterday because of their dad's lack of foresight, they began a crowdfunder to try raise a bit of cash for a funeral for him. It went a long way to take their minds off things for a little while. Their dad was a popular character around our local area and people have been extremely generous, and so the children are just about sorted to pay for the funeral. However, this afternoon their uncle (dad's brother) verbally barges in and declares that himself and his father are to be sorting the funeral arrangements. He also said that various members of our family (including me) are NOT to attend. He said that if he doesn't get his way then neither himself, his elderly father or any of that side of the family will attend my ex's funeral and neither contribute financially or otherwise (ie with eulogy, songs, sentiments etc). As you can hopefully understand, my children are very upset by this. They don't need the financial help particularly, but would so love everyone to be involved.

My ex never met anyone else and stayed single for the rest of his life, so his children as far as I can see, are the next for pecking order. Seeing as their uncle seems so cock sure of himself, would be have more right than them?

Personally I wanna tell him to stick it up his **** but obviously it's down to our children to do that. They're being bullied 3 days after they lost their dad and its just not fair.

Thank you for reading X

[seekeerz]

My immediate reaction is to tell the uncle to take his bat, ball and wicket and go home !!

I don’t know how much contact your family has had with the uncle over the years, but I do feel your children have the right to organise their father’s funeral.

It’s a very upsetting time for everyone and a pity there has to be animosity between the two groups ….I don’t envy you one bit and hopefully it can be settled with all the family involved…Good Luck.

[schippiegalette]

To answer your question, No, your brother-in-law has no more right over your children to arrange your ex-husbands funeral. Your children are over eighteen therefore legally they are his next of kin so they should be responsible for arranging their father's funeral. I would call the brothers-in-law bluff and tell him to get lost. He won't speak for the whole of the family and if he personally wants to boycott the funeral you are probably better off without him.

[bednobs]

"next of kin" which is meaningless in law anyway, doesn't mean anything after someone has died. Nobody is obliged to organize a funeral
where is your exes body now? Have your children started organising (ie got the body to the FD?)

[schippiegalette]

Next of kin is not a meaningless law, in fact its not a law at all. I was answering the question which was does a brother have any more rights over arranging a funeral than an offspring.
Next of kin is usually understood to be a person’s closest relative. The order usually goes:

A husband, wife, or civil partner.
An adult child or legally adopted child
A parent
A sibling

The Police for instance will inform next of Kin in that order, however as you pointed out, no one is obliged to organise a funeral, but that was not the question asked.

[Peter Pedant]

tell your children I am sorry for their loss.
Family quarrels over funerals are the norm.
Usually the person with the money does the funeral

it should be solved by discussion

[maggiebee]

I know Scots Law is slightly different from English but I would say that your children are your ex husband's direct descendants. As such they come first and should tell their uncle to butt out. Why does death and funerals always bring out the worst in folk?

[Tigress1974]

Thank you so much all for taking the time to respond. I feel so much better reading the answers, then have provided much clarity to what was an extremely frustrating weekend, especially since my children are only 4 days in since their dad's death. My ex died following an assault (I said an illness originally because he was made ill by the assault) so it is all subject to a massive police investigation. No, his body hasn't even been released yet, my children don't even have a death certificate. But this man who calls himself his brother has taken it on himself to try to make plans behind our children's backs (the guy doesn't have a bean money-wise). Today we learn that the man has made himself point of contact for the police, we also found out that info was given to him on Friday about the case and he neglected to share it with my children. He also neglected to tell the kids that their fathers body has been sent elsewhere for the PM. Understandably my son may have gone a bit mad at his uncle down the phone; he has also reinstated himself as point of contact for all information. All this because their uncle wants to arrange everything for his own means and gain attention. Its all down to pure jealousy.

Oh my god my blood is boiling.

Much love all X

[schippiegalette]

It sounds as if you are now taking things into your own hands and that's great. The next thing to do is to take advice from a Funeral Director. They are extremely knowledgeable about these things and treat every family with discretion. As for the brother, make sure the Police know your son is the only one they should talk to, and advise your brother-in-Law that his next of Kin, his son, is organising the funeral.

[Maydup]

I feel so sorry for your children not only having lost their Dad especially after an assault but to have this awful conflict now with his brother who should be supporting them in their grief rather than fighting them.

I’m pleased your son is able to stay strong and managed to take the lead back from his uncle. It seems to me that they have nothing to lose if it means uncle boycotts the funeral. Unless he comes in friendship and good relations, he should stay away.

[Peter Pedant]

If there is a will ( there is not) then the executor has a right to dispose of the body, and probably a duty ( Helen Smith, nurse balcony, father wouldnt bury).

This is an intestate case. Whose has control of the estate BEFORE a grant of administration ( which grants rights to the applicant: anyone with an interest may apply) ? I dont know. ( I do for wills, it is the executor Queensland Tax commissioner case)

It MAY the person who reported the death ( and has the DC)
or not

I dont think that the Law is the right way to solve this ( parallels to the kid on the ventilator. ct not the right place)

sorry again for the children

[Peter Pedant]

as a result of the rain and the quite mind numbing stuff being discussed on AB as we speak -
I returned to this
specifically who has the right to do what in intestate cases
( memo to self - make a will folks!)
and depressingly the answer is here

[2019] EWHC 3639 (Fam)

plug that into Google - and the case will come up
( parents arguing over who and how to bury a child)

[Hopkirk]

If it makes it easier to resolve, how about saying that you yourself won't attend the funeral?

[Peter Pedant]

I dont see that folding your arms and insisting "I aint gonna go" helps. The summary of the case I mentioned ( E)
is

In the absence of a will, decisions as to disposal of the body fell to the administrators of the child's estate, and both parents would be entitled to grant of administration (r22, Non-Contentious Probate Rules 1987). The judge identified two valid legal routes to determine disputes between administrators. Firstly, s.116 Senior Courts Act 1981 allowed for the court to substitute one to act for the other or both [12]. Alternatively, the inherent jurisdiction could be used to give directions for the disposal of the body [17-18].