iraq

[stokeace]

so american soldiers are being critisised for not intervening when iraqi police attacked sunni insurgents ok they were assaulting them but this is a war zone.these sunnis had probably been trying to kill the americans and indeed british soldiers its a war zone of the iraqi peoples own making so they should expect to be treated as the enemy and to die like the enemy.

[jake-the-peg]

Dooh!

Come on stokeace think about it!

If it's a war zone with no appearance of prober police control will pulling out troops look like

a) a controlled withdrawal after a job well done
or
b) a shambolic retreat

Every incident like this makes it look more like the Iraqis can't stand on their own two feet and puts off the day that troops can be withdrawn

[kwicky]

The situation iin Iraq is getting so chaotic it is difficult to tell the foes from the friends. The dominant Shia population have the upper hand and thanks to the USA and Britain who are just a party to the death squads are trying to wipe out the Baathists. But Iran who support the Shias are branded as one of the axis of evil countries. It is gettiing very confusing!

[MrBen5]

Hmmm, i think the USA and England are doing a fine job over there. despite the many difficulties. What needs to happen, is ban the media from these countries until its all sorted out...

[jake-the-peg]

If you ban the media you'll get more of this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6 198947.stm

At first the military tried to say that the 24 men women and children died in "unrest" but locals and the press describe how after one of their soldiers was killed by a bomb the marines kicked in doors and killed anybody they could find.

One of the children was 3

[andy-hughes]

" ... it's a war zone of the Iraqui people's own making ..."

I don't think so - it became a war zone when America decided to enforce it's own particular version of 'democracy' on a nation by invading it.

Terrorism is a moveable feast - who is a terrorist and who is a liberating soldier depends on where you live, and whose gun barrel you arer staring down.

Saying that the Iraqui people are 'the enemy' is a statement of breath-taking generality - I think you and Mr Bush would get on famously - he takes a similarly simplistic attitude to the problems he has created - throw enough weapons and soldiers in and everything will be OK.

You are safe and fre by an accident of birth - don;t be too keen to pronounce on the actions of people who are in a less fortunate position because of the whims of a rich American with an 'agenda' and a nine-figure budget to indulge it with.

[stokeace]

andy i appreciate your views but iraq was involved in 9/11 havent people got short memories?its the radical muslims who are a threat to our very freedom we are at this very moment under threat from these extremeists who will blow buses and underground trains up without a moments thought killing people in the process.its this axis of evil that the west is trying to eradicate and that is why our brave soldiers are in iraq and afghanistan trying to protect our way of life and securing our safety.

[andy-hughes]

Iraq was not involved in 911 - a small minority of fundamentalists were involved in 911 - that's like saying 'America was involved in lynching black people' when it was The Ku Klux Klan - not quite that broad a swathe when you look at it.

When you talk about 'eradicating the axis of evil', you are simply regurgitating the Prsidential propoganda. Iraq may have had weapons of mass distruction - because Britain sold them to Saddam - yes, people DO have short memories.

The notion of solving a cultural, political and religious difference of perspective by force is, and always has been a monumental failure. if you want to talk about 'short memories' - what about Viet Nam? Same attitude, same reaction, same result. America has learned nothing from its history of invasion and force.

It is naive to assume that a miliary presence in Iraq and Afghanistan is ever going to protect any of us from terrorism - it simply adds to the fundamentalist belief that the West is out to enforce its ideology by use of miliary action - and they will respond by terrorist action.

It is a no-win situation - and people continue to die as proof of it.

I do not know what the answer is - but I also know what the answer is not - war in the East will not stop bombs in London, or anywhere else. It just isn't that simple ... except in the mind of Mr Bush.

[jake-the-peg]

Iraq was involved in 9/11!!!??

Please enlighten us stokeace!!!

I seem to recall that Colin Powell's case for that revolved around the fact that an Al Qaeda terrorist was once seen in Baghdad!

A speech which he now calls "a blot on his record"

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/powell-ca lls-un-speech-a-blot-on-his/200509082317099900 04

Nothing wrong with having a contraversial opinion but do try to keep up with the facts!

[stokeace]

ok i agree that it is a broad spectrum that the middle east was involved with 9/11 but arent al queda and those who beheaded american civilians and our own ken bigley based in iraq?it is the do gooders of this world that allow terrorists the freedom to terrorise.i did 3 tours in northern ireland during the 80s and if you dont deal with the hardliners at grass root level you never eradicate the problem the middle east situation is a crisis but we cant leave now for the safety and security of the western way of life or else we will have another atrocity on our hands.

[jake-the-peg]

Sorry??

In what way did any action in Northern Ireland in the 80's "erradicating" anybody achieve anything other than pushing up IRA recruitment?

It had to wait until we had a Government in the 90s who were willing to talk that anything could happen!

If you think that we can win Iraq with military strength you're delusional. Our best hope is to try and get the Iraqii forces to a point where we can high-tail it out of there without it all collapsing into a civil war.

And that is why it's so important that the Iraqii police aren't a middleastern version of the RUC, totally onesided and colluding with terrorists on 'their' side.

[stokeace]

jake the peg iraq is already in a state of civil war.so you want us to pull out now and leave the terrorists to regroup even stronger you are the one who is deluded if you think we can leave the situation now its got to be seen out till the bitter end no mattwer what the cost it is a vietnam situation now if we abandon it now the radical muslims will become stronger and committ more atrocities then the west will face an even bigger threat biological or nuclear is that an option?

[andy-hughes]

That is the problem, there is no 'end' - bitter or otherwise.

[stokeace]

andy i agree 100% it took years to sort out ireland and countless loss of life so god help us in iraq the irish terrorists were cowards the islamic terrorists are a new breed they will sacrifice their own lives for the cause there is no easy way im afraid.