ChatterBank0 min ago
Black Police Authorities warning
27 Answers
This should follow on from my question "Muslims angered yet again", that was removed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-106913 3/Boris-orders-inquiry-Met-race-claims-Black-P olice-Association-urges-ethnic-recruits-boycot t.html
Black Police Authority said it would be failing in its duty if it did not tell black and ethnic minority potential applicants 'what a hostile and racist situation it is there'.
Britain's only black police chief, Kent's Mike Fuller, says ethnic minority officers have to work twice as hard as whites to get on.
Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur was put on gardening leave last month after calling a press conference to announce plans to take the force to an employment tribunal, claiming racial discrimination.
Another senior ethnic minority officer, Commander Ali Dizaei, was suspended last month over misconduct allegations.
Can we take the word of these very senior policemen, who seem to have their own very special axe to grind, and who have not done so bad for themselves, thank you very much?
Life was much simpler before we became a multi racial/multi-faith nation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-106913 3/Boris-orders-inquiry-Met-race-claims-Black-P olice-Association-urges-ethnic-recruits-boycot t.html
Black Police Authority said it would be failing in its duty if it did not tell black and ethnic minority potential applicants 'what a hostile and racist situation it is there'.
Britain's only black police chief, Kent's Mike Fuller, says ethnic minority officers have to work twice as hard as whites to get on.
Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur was put on gardening leave last month after calling a press conference to announce plans to take the force to an employment tribunal, claiming racial discrimination.
Another senior ethnic minority officer, Commander Ali Dizaei, was suspended last month over misconduct allegations.
Can we take the word of these very senior policemen, who seem to have their own very special axe to grind, and who have not done so bad for themselves, thank you very much?
Life was much simpler before we became a multi racial/multi-faith nation.
Answers
Best Answer
No best answer has yet been selected by anotheoldgit. Once a best answer has been selected, it will be shown here.
For more on marking an answer as the "Best Answer", please visit our FAQ.
I used to work as a civilian for a large police force. At the station where I worked were 1 black male officer and 1 Asian female officer. The male officer was brilliant at his job and just wanted to get on with it, but he was forever being dragged off to functions, to meet visiting politicians etc against his wishes. He resigned in disgust.
The female officer was under the (then) height restriction and had uncontrolled diabetes. She was allowed to dictate her own hours and her own work. (if it was raining she always decided to have a paperwork day). We were forever getting calls from members of the public to say she had been found collapsed in the street in a diabetic coma.
A white male officer at the same station was diagnosed as having late onset diabetes and was promptly dismissed on medical grounds.
Yes, I agree there is racism in the police but most of it is now directed at white officers.
The female officer was under the (then) height restriction and had uncontrolled diabetes. She was allowed to dictate her own hours and her own work. (if it was raining she always decided to have a paperwork day). We were forever getting calls from members of the public to say she had been found collapsed in the street in a diabetic coma.
A white male officer at the same station was diagnosed as having late onset diabetes and was promptly dismissed on medical grounds.
Yes, I agree there is racism in the police but most of it is now directed at white officers.
-- answer removed --
-- answer removed --
No we cannot, that is why Boris has ordered ann inquiry...
An inquiry into allegations of racism in the Metropolitan Police has been ordered by Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-106878 0/Ian-Blair-I-did-NOT-resign--Boris-Johnson-fi red-me.html
Unfortunately, it will cost thousands of pounds which could otherwise have be spent on effective policing.
Life was simpler before, but the world changes, you cannot live in the past.
An inquiry into allegations of racism in the Metropolitan Police has been ordered by Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-106878 0/Ian-Blair-I-did-NOT-resign--Boris-Johnson-fi red-me.html
Unfortunately, it will cost thousands of pounds which could otherwise have be spent on effective policing.
Life was simpler before, but the world changes, you cannot live in the past.
Apart from the occasional anecdote and the preposterous allegation made at the conclusion of the ludicrous McPherson enquiry into the death of Stephen Lawrence, no proper evidence has ever been produced to support the claim that the Metropolitan Police is �institutionally racist� (whatever that might mean).
Mr Alfred John, Chairman of the Met Black Police Association, reiterated these allegations in the summer. (Mr John is the subject of the current article highlighted by antheoldgit).
The Metropolitan Police Federation (the statutory body representing over 30,000 London police officers from every background) wrote to Mr John at the end of August, asking him to substantiate his claims. To date they have received no reply.
It seems to me that there are a number of people in the Met who have a different agenda to the majority of officers and to that which the public would like them to follow. The Met has just lost, as its Commissioner, probably the most unsuitable officer ever to have held the post. Sir Ian Blair spent a disproportionate amount of his time trying to pacify the ridiculous ramblings of the likes of Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur, Commander Ali Dizaei (neither of whom is black) and the rest of the Association of Black Police Officers � time which should have been spent overseeing the policing of London. And look what he got for his trouble.
The Black Police Officers� Association should be disbanded forthwith. Its formation should never have been sanctioned as there is no place in an organisation such as the police force for a body which seeks to represent only one section of that organisation to the detriment of the others. The views of their representatives would then be formally irrelevant and the Met could get on with its job of looking after Londoners.
Mr Alfred John, Chairman of the Met Black Police Association, reiterated these allegations in the summer. (Mr John is the subject of the current article highlighted by antheoldgit).
The Metropolitan Police Federation (the statutory body representing over 30,000 London police officers from every background) wrote to Mr John at the end of August, asking him to substantiate his claims. To date they have received no reply.
It seems to me that there are a number of people in the Met who have a different agenda to the majority of officers and to that which the public would like them to follow. The Met has just lost, as its Commissioner, probably the most unsuitable officer ever to have held the post. Sir Ian Blair spent a disproportionate amount of his time trying to pacify the ridiculous ramblings of the likes of Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur, Commander Ali Dizaei (neither of whom is black) and the rest of the Association of Black Police Officers � time which should have been spent overseeing the policing of London. And look what he got for his trouble.
The Black Police Officers� Association should be disbanded forthwith. Its formation should never have been sanctioned as there is no place in an organisation such as the police force for a body which seeks to represent only one section of that organisation to the detriment of the others. The views of their representatives would then be formally irrelevant and the Met could get on with its job of looking after Londoners.
I heard the head of HR for the Met on the radio this morning.
Although continually pushed he would not deny that Mike Fuller's assertian that ethic minority officers had to work harder to get the same benefits.
Think about that
The head of HR in an organisation will not go on record to say that there is not institutional racial discrimination in their organisation.
And we're not talking about junior offiers here are we?
This is not a couple of sargeants in a back office somewhere.
A Chief Constable, a commander and an assistant comissioner!
Although the I think we can safely assume that they've not done this lightly.
Although the BPA's statement reeks of political opportunism riding on the coattails of Blair's departure these are serious allegations from serious people and Frankly Boris doesn't have a choice but to take them seriously and ask for an investigation.
Of course if the investigation comes back and says it's a serious problem he'll be stuck with having to do something.
He's taken the initiative and now he's being taken along with the current, if he's not careful it could take him over the waterfall.
Although continually pushed he would not deny that Mike Fuller's assertian that ethic minority officers had to work harder to get the same benefits.
Think about that
The head of HR in an organisation will not go on record to say that there is not institutional racial discrimination in their organisation.
And we're not talking about junior offiers here are we?
This is not a couple of sargeants in a back office somewhere.
A Chief Constable, a commander and an assistant comissioner!
Although the I think we can safely assume that they've not done this lightly.
Although the BPA's statement reeks of political opportunism riding on the coattails of Blair's departure these are serious allegations from serious people and Frankly Boris doesn't have a choice but to take them seriously and ask for an investigation.
Of course if the investigation comes back and says it's a serious problem he'll be stuck with having to do something.
He's taken the initiative and now he's being taken along with the current, if he's not careful it could take him over the waterfall.
-- answer removed --
This is indeed news jake, cannot understand why the Guardian etc. have not sprung onto what the head of HR for the Met (whoever this person is), didn't say.
What they did report though was interesting indeed. Apparently Boris is not too popular for the proposed investigation of racism in the Metropolitan police.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/06 /police.boris
What they did report though was interesting indeed. Apparently Boris is not too popular for the proposed investigation of racism in the Metropolitan police.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/06 /police.boris
Jake, you must not be surprised that the head of the Met's HR would not go on record to say that there is not institutional racial discrimination in his organisation.
I too heard the gentleman and he sounded to me that he would not go on the record to say that the sun came up yesterday.
The Metropolitan Police has too many politicians and lobbyists and not enough thieftakers on its payroll. And thereby hangs (most of) its problems.
Nonetheless I do listen when Mike Fuller speaks. He is a Chief Constable whom I and most of the officers under his command admire and respect. But I'm not convinced that what he says is entirely correct.
I base this on conversations I have had with many Kent police officers (of all ethnicities). Mike Fuller may have had to work twice as hard as he would have liked to achieve his position, but I'm not sure he had to work twice as hard as the other Chief Constables have to achieve theirs.
I too heard the gentleman and he sounded to me that he would not go on the record to say that the sun came up yesterday.
The Metropolitan Police has too many politicians and lobbyists and not enough thieftakers on its payroll. And thereby hangs (most of) its problems.
Nonetheless I do listen when Mike Fuller speaks. He is a Chief Constable whom I and most of the officers under his command admire and respect. But I'm not convinced that what he says is entirely correct.
I base this on conversations I have had with many Kent police officers (of all ethnicities). Mike Fuller may have had to work twice as hard as he would have liked to achieve his position, but I'm not sure he had to work twice as hard as the other Chief Constables have to achieve theirs.
Are we as non-policemen going to stand up and dismiss the claims of senior police officers referring to their own organisation?
Seriously?
Let's see a show of hands...who here has had 20 years experience in the Met?
Anyone?
No...so let's not just dismiss what Fuller has to say. Let's analyze them.
And by the way, from what I have been reading, life pre-immigration was pretty rubbish. Don't believe the claptrap you read in the right wing press about the happy days of the 50s.
That's cobblers.
Check out any book by Andrew Marr or Dominic Sandbrook - and let those rose tinted glasses fall away.
Seriously?
Let's see a show of hands...who here has had 20 years experience in the Met?
Anyone?
No...so let's not just dismiss what Fuller has to say. Let's analyze them.
And by the way, from what I have been reading, life pre-immigration was pretty rubbish. Don't believe the claptrap you read in the right wing press about the happy days of the 50s.
That's cobblers.
Check out any book by Andrew Marr or Dominic Sandbrook - and let those rose tinted glasses fall away.
Probably because he said it this morning when the papers were already out.
I have the slight suspicion that you are picking whether or not you believe these men based on your own prejudices.
Had 3 officers of this seniority (black white or purple) said there was a major knife problem that the Government was ignoring I feel tempted to think that you wouldn't be questioning their word or claiming they had an axe to grind.
Supposer there were amajor problem of instituional racial prejudice in the Met - what evidence would you need to see to convince you?
Or is it your opinion that racial prejudice in the Police is a good thing?
I have the slight suspicion that you are picking whether or not you believe these men based on your own prejudices.
Had 3 officers of this seniority (black white or purple) said there was a major knife problem that the Government was ignoring I feel tempted to think that you wouldn't be questioning their word or claiming they had an axe to grind.
Supposer there were amajor problem of instituional racial prejudice in the Met - what evidence would you need to see to convince you?
Or is it your opinion that racial prejudice in the Police is a good thing?
JTP
Never thought of it that way.
But that's a good point...AOG - if a senior police officer said that "Black officers often get an unfairly easy ride which is beginning to alienate white officers", what would your reaction be?
My guess is that you would automatically give his message credence (credance?)
Don't you think it makes more sense to look at Fuller's arguments rather than dismissing them out of hand?
Never thought of it that way.
But that's a good point...AOG - if a senior police officer said that "Black officers often get an unfairly easy ride which is beginning to alienate white officers", what would your reaction be?
My guess is that you would automatically give his message credence (credance?)
Don't you think it makes more sense to look at Fuller's arguments rather than dismissing them out of hand?
You don�t have to have experience in the Met to have a view whether �institutional racism� exists as defined by the McPherson report. Remember, this is the report that said that any incident is racist �...which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person".
This was not about the racist treatment of officers within the organisation, but about the way the police treat incidents and how they categorize them as racist. Hence my assertion that this particular one of the McPherson report�s conclusions was ludicrous. It not only failed to define what a racist incident was, but gave carte blanche to �any other person� (whether involved in the incident or not) to categorise it as such.
That one fallacious conclusion did more to damage the Met (and lead them into the ridiculous circumstances in which they find themselves today) than just about anything else.
This was not about the racist treatment of officers within the organisation, but about the way the police treat incidents and how they categorize them as racist. Hence my assertion that this particular one of the McPherson report�s conclusions was ludicrous. It not only failed to define what a racist incident was, but gave carte blanche to �any other person� (whether involved in the incident or not) to categorise it as such.
That one fallacious conclusion did more to damage the Met (and lead them into the ridiculous circumstances in which they find themselves today) than just about anything else.
New Judge
My understanding is that particular change in the law doesn't apply solely to the police.
Anyone reporting an attack can describe it as racially motivated if they perceive it as such.
Yes, it gives carte blanche for anyone to define an attack as racist in origin, but who else should be in charge of categorising it?
I would conclude that the Met wouldn't be getting it's knickers in a twist if they'd put their own house in order back in the 80s, rather than to leave things to fester inside its own closed shop environment for so long.
That made me sound very anti-police. I'm not. It's just that when to observe the cancer of racism within an organisation, it's better to get it cut out as quickly as possible.
Remember the kind of things you used to hear on the football terraces in the 70s?
Quite rightly that's now become unacceptable. I honestly believe that racism and the perception of racism within the Met has subsided since I was a kid. That is a good thing.
A really, really good thing.
My understanding is that particular change in the law doesn't apply solely to the police.
Anyone reporting an attack can describe it as racially motivated if they perceive it as such.
Yes, it gives carte blanche for anyone to define an attack as racist in origin, but who else should be in charge of categorising it?
I would conclude that the Met wouldn't be getting it's knickers in a twist if they'd put their own house in order back in the 80s, rather than to leave things to fester inside its own closed shop environment for so long.
That made me sound very anti-police. I'm not. It's just that when to observe the cancer of racism within an organisation, it's better to get it cut out as quickly as possible.
Remember the kind of things you used to hear on the football terraces in the 70s?
Quite rightly that's now become unacceptable. I honestly believe that racism and the perception of racism within the Met has subsided since I was a kid. That is a good thing.
A really, really good thing.
Latest Posts
Quizzes & Puzzles1 min ago
Starmer's Approval Rating Plummets,
News2 mins ago
ChatterBank5 mins ago
Crosswords15 mins ago
Charging Order On Leasehold Flat
Law22 mins ago
Related Questions
Sorry, we can't find any related questions. Try using the search bar at the top of the page to search for some keywords, or choose a topic and submit your own question.