The Money Box!

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21023615
There was a lot of whinning about this yellow box junction on News24 this morning. Brought in £3m apparanetly. All manner of the usual adjectives where used, "scandalous"! etc but no one mentioned the obvious, ie obey the rules of the yellow box and you won't get fined! Why is this particular box so difficult to use correctly?

[jackthehat]

It's because of the position of the box between different traffic lights and the filtering system in a very busy part of London. The drivers who get caught often have only their back wheels resting in the box.

[ToraToraTora]

so what part of, "don't enter the box unless your exit is clear" is ambiguous here?

[Old_Geezer]

Box junctions work well for small areas, but no one expects the cars to wait and drive across one at a time when traffic needs to flow, one'd get horns blasted at you and the chaos would be awful, so on a reasonable expectation of getting across traffic follows the one in front. Normally this is fine since it is usually clear if traffic is stopped and entering will cause a problem, but on the occasion it stops unexpectedly folk are getting demands for money for trying to be a good citizen/driver. Which is why they are not the good idea they initially seemed, in particular the large sized ones where an unexpected hold up is more likely. I think councils are aware of this and are happy to collect revenue as a result, because they don't care. It's not in their interest to care. A blocked junction doesn't get unblocked because someone got caught out, but if does provide a patsy to help fill the coffers.

[ludwig]

I think the problem is that if you don't enter the box until the exit is clear, then you never enter the box, and no-one goes anywhere.
The unsuspecting don't know this to be the case until they get there, and basically get charged £60 (or whatever it is) for the privelege of continuing their journey.

[ToraToraTora]

so this should not be a yellow box then?

[jackthehat]

Because of the lights/filtering, etc. the 'exits' are rarely clear; most drivers enter the box with the anticipation that the lane they are hoping to enter will clear for them. This is often stymied by the lights changing, or traffic stopping further up to allow for filtering.

[ladybirder]

So don't enter the box until it's clear. If it's never clear then the build-up of traffic will bring the area to a standstill eventually. Then the council will have to have a re-think and do something about it.

[ToraToraTora]

Yes ladybirder is correct. Obey the rules sit there until your exit is clear. Once gridlocked regularly and they are getting no cash in the coffers, they'll act. You cannot introduce a traffic system then expect people to disobey it in certain cases to aid traffic flow, then fine them!. Clearly a yellow box is not the answer for this junction.

[ludwig]

// Yes ladybirder is correct. Obey the rules sit there until your exit is clear. //

Yeah, good luck dealing with all the angry people behind you.

[ToraToraTora]

Let them get angry, I'm not going to pay a fine to appease those behind.

[ToraToraTora]

So are we now basing traffic rules on the relative anger of the participants?

[ludwig]

// So are we now basing traffic rules on the relative anger of the participants? //

No. I'm just saying good luck with the 'sit there in protest' plan. It's good on paper. Personally I'll just be avoiding the area, but I'll be right behind you, as will many others I'm sure.

[FredPuli43]

Ladybirder, are we to take it that you don't drive in central London ? Your counsel of perfection is utterly impractical, which is a reason why this King's Road junction makes so much money. If all drivers waited for the road, into which they are intending to turn, to be completely clear for at least a car's length, before entering the box, traffic would be gridlocked. Every driver has to trust that the intended road's traffic will move on a little before he needs to enter it. If he is caught out, and he leaves even a foot of vehicle overhanging the box, the Council collects.

[rockyracoon]

I think this is the junction my OH screams about, he crossed whilst clear, a bus jumped the lights and cut him up blocking his path, he was completely buggered but the authorities didn't want to hear about it. He just avoids the area entirely now.

[rockyracoon]

Sorry it didn't jump the lights, it was in the LH lane and jumped across into his gap.

[Hopkirk]

Try driving an articulated lorry in London!

If you leave any sort of a gap ahead, let alone one big enough for your vehicle, then cars just keep changing lanes to fill it up.

The only thing you can do, and it doesn't always work, is to creep very slowly so you might manage to avoid stopping.

[naomi24]

There’s a box like this in the City of London. Complete nightmare! If drivers wishing to turn right don’t go immediately the lights turn green, thereby entering and being obliged to stop in the box to wait for a suitable gap in on-coming heavy traffic, they would sit at the traffic lights all day. Filter lights to control the directional flow of traffic in very busy areas are desperately needed at some of these junctions. Boxes are a good idea, but working in many congested areas as they do now, they are totally impractical for the driver – and very beneficial for the authority’s’ coffers.

[youngmafbog]

Yes, obey the rules and gridlock it is the only way to deal with councils like this.

This particular junction, given the revenue, is clearly a cash cow milking the easy motorist one again.

Do councils get the money from the fines? If so then stop that and let the fine go to central Government, then you will only get boxes, speed cameras etc where really required and they will be respect d by the motorist

[ladybirder]

Traffic would be gridlocked was actually my point fred. Although my post was slightly tongue-in-cheek.

I wouldn't have the nerve to do it myself but neither will I be forced into paying a fine, so I would avoid the area even if it meant a longer journey, but maybe quicker than sitting in a box for goodness knows how long. But I would love it if some people did have the nerve to do it. Arguably anyone sitting behind the blocker and getting frustrated should be grateful for being saved from having to pay a fine. I know, I know, the world doesn't work like that. But if it did the council would have to do something about it.

[Gromit]

Selfish numpties or people who have forgotten how to drive, it is hard to decide. But in any busy town or city in the UK, you will see the same idiots blocking junctions and causing havoc. It is clear that the fines are not changing behaviour. Instead of fining them, a week or month driving ban for persistant offenders would improve traffic flow and alter behaviour.